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Old 05-22-2008, 01:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Christianity and Free Will/Fate

What exactly is the Christian view on freewill? As far as i can tell the idea of an all-mighty God who has a plan for the world doesn't exactly seem compatible with the idea of freewill.

And before anyone says something like..."Even though God knows everything we will do, we can still have freewill!"...I humbly submit to you the following verses from the book of Romans 9:14-24

Quote:
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

(NKJV)
(bold emphasis mine)
Now correct me if i'm wrong but from reading the above it sounds almost as if we don't get much choice in the matter. So for the Christians, is this what you believe or do you interpret these verses in another way?

I just need to make sure i'm not making some terrible misinterpretation before i use it in an English Speech we have to do for school(its actually about ideologies in Hamlet and mine is about Fate vs Freewill, i'll be arguing for freewill but not from any kind of christian perspective; the bible quoting is just to establish that this stuff is promoted in the bible).
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

One of the very things that I find makes Christianity illogical.

You have chosen verses where I think this shows this, but I reckon some poetic license could be employed with them. Here's some more explicit occurences in the Bible. (NKJV)

Quote:
Exodus 9:12
But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.
Quote:
Exodus 10:1
Now the LORD said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh; for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his servants, that I may show these signs of Mine before him...
In fact, including these two passages, there are seven passages going up to Exodus 14 that involve God 'hardening Pharoh's heart'.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

Tempting and forcing are two different things. If I recall, God never actually forced the pharaoh to do anything.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

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Originally Posted by LuklaAdvocate View Post
Tempting and forcing are two different things. If I recall, God never actually forced the pharaoh to do anything.
Well according to the bible God doesn't tempt people either....

Quote:
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

James 1:13 (NKJV)
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

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Originally Posted by Nimzo View Post
Well according to the bible God doesn't tempt people either....
Good point.
I imagine it all comes down to your definition of "free will" and perhaps if God does exist, some things in life do come down to your own decisions and other things are decided for you.
Problem is, James is in the New Testament and Exodus is in the Old Testament; things change between the two.
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

Depends on what Bible verse you look at. Some say it's predestined, others say it's not.

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Old 05-26-2008, 01:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Christianity and Free Will/Fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuklaAdvocate View Post
Good point.
I imagine it all comes down to your definition of "free will" and perhaps if God does exist, some things in life do come down to your own decisions and other things are decided for you.
Problem is, James is in the New Testament and Exodus is in the Old Testament; things change between the two.
It all has to do with destiny and coincidence...
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