I support a Public Option

DamnImGood · 12-01-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjava

Yes, you can. I would actually abolish the insurance companies completely. It's insurance companies and lawsuits that are driving up our costs.

Are you trying to tell me if you magically removed all the insurance companies the health care system wouldn't be affected at all? You wouldn't need to reform anything? You're kidding, right? The current health care system is based on insurance companies. If you remove them or modify them, you're going to have to follow suit with the health care system itself. They go hand in hand.

Zen · 12-01-2009, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjava

Right and wrong. The health care plan won't begin for some years, but the taxes to support the health care plan will begin almost immediately. So, we will be paying hundreds of billions in taxes towards something that won't start for years. This is to "save money" so we can pay for the plan easier when it begins.

I don't see how that makes me wrong. I was addressing his fears in regards to the recession.

iamjava · 12-01-2009, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnImGood

Are you trying to tell me if you magically removed all the insurance companies the health care system wouldn't be affected at all? You wouldn't need to reform anything? You're kidding, right? The current health care system is based on insurance companies. If you remove them or modify them, you're going to have to follow suit with the health care system itself. They go hand in hand.

The health care system will indirectly be affected. I am not saying that it won't be affected at all, just that you don't need to reform the whole system, just reform the health insurance itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

I don't see how that makes me wrong. I was addressing his fears in regards to the recession.

The health care bill will be passed into law. While the actual health care plan won't take affect for ~5 years, the bill itself, including taxes, will begin immediately. So for argument's sake, you were right when you said the plan won't begin for 5 years, but the bill itself will. (Which pisses me off.)

Zen · 12-01-2009, 03:09 AM

Alright. I would rather they ease us into it all, though.

iamjava · 12-01-2009, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

Alright. I would rather they ease us into it all, though.

I would rather they just butt out.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." -- Gerald Ford.

Zen · 12-01-2009, 03:55 AM

There are always risks, I'm afraid.

iamjava · 12-01-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

There are always risks, I'm afraid.

Necessary risks are risks I am willing to take. Unnecessary risks just are not worth it. It's not worth risking our nation's sovereignty, our nation's financial status, our freedoms, for health care reform. (And yes, contrary to popular belief, America can, and will, fail.)

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
--Ben Franklin

Aleksandr · 12-01-2009, 05:27 AM

The healthcare system is as bad as it is because of too much federal regulations already. We need to completely privatize the healthcare industry in the US to solve all problems.

Zen · 12-01-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjava

Necessary risks are risks I am willing to take. Unnecessary risks just are not worth it. It's not worth risking our nation's sovereignty, our nation's financial status, our freedoms, for health care reform. (And yes, contrary to popular belief, America can, and will, fail.)

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
--Ben Franklin

This seems to be the response towards any radical change in the United States.

iamjava · 12-01-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksandr

The healthcare system is as bad as it is because of too much federal regulations already. We need to completely privatize the healthcare industry in the US to solve all problems.

Not enough regulation. Either get rid of insurance companies or regulate them to hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

This seems to be the response towards any radical change in the United States.

I know, logic can be a bitch like that sometimes.

Zen · 12-01-2009, 08:51 AM

Considering the country has yet to collapse, I would find these calls unfounded. Are those countries with UH themselves not doing fine?

iamjava · 12-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

Considering the country has yet to collapse, I would find these calls unfounded. Are those countries with UH themselves not doing fine?

We are already in debt $12 trillion dollars. ( U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time ) We are so far in debt that even if we taxed the Fortune 500 companies 100% of their profits, it would take over 100 years to pay off this debt. We can't monetize the debt, otherwise we risk inflation greater than 1920's Germany.

Let's put it this way: if you are an average person with an average job and all you did for a few years was rack up credit cards to put you under a few million dollars, you would be jailed.

That is seriously fail logic. It's horrifying logic, even. "The nation hasn't collapsed yet, therefore it's not going to." How about this: "the World Trade Centers never collapsed, therefore they will never collapse." Oops, I guess I was wrong..

DR.Hamza · 12-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Let me take control of America and everything will be better

Zen · 12-02-2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjava

We are already in debt $12 trillion dollars. ( U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time ) We are so far in debt that even if we taxed the Fortune 500 companies 100% of their profits, it would take over 100 years to pay off this debt. We can't monetize the debt, otherwise we risk inflation greater than 1920's Germany.

Let's put it this way: if you are an average person with an average job and all you did for a few years was rack up credit cards to put you under a few million dollars, you would be jailed.

That is seriously fail logic. It's horrifying logic, even. "The nation hasn't collapsed yet, therefore it's not going to." How about this: "the World Trade Centers never collapsed, therefore they will never collapse." Oops, I guess I was wrong..

I never said it wasn't going to. I said that the calls of a collapse at every single gesture towards radical change was unfounded thus far. Your aggression is imposing to others, maybe, but I do not see the point in it. I am being inquisitive. If my "fail" logic is upsetting you, I apologize.

iamjava · 12-02-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen

I never said it wasn't going to. I said that the calls of a collapse at every single gesture towards radical change was unfounded thus far. Your aggression is imposing to others, maybe, but I do not see the point in it. I am being inquisitive. If my "fail" logic is upsetting you, I apologize.

It's not unfounded. This "radical change" can make or break America. From what I have seen in it so far, it's only going to break America. Once America breaks (still speaking metaphorically)... well, actually, I wouldn't even know where to begin with the problems that would be caused if America broke. It wouldn't be good for anyone in the world.