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11-27-2009, 10:55 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Super Elite Member
Name: Chris Gender: Male Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hangin with Jimmy Hoffa in Sarasota, FL (now you know where he is) Posts: 5,452
Money: 844 Last Online: Today 10:30 AM My Mood: | I support a Public Option Discuss Obama's Healthcare plan.
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11-27-2009, 11:59 AM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Fade to Black
Name: Jon Gender: Male Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southeastern MA Posts: 41,347
Money: 1,859,942 Last Online: Today 02:00 PM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option I don't see it working well in a country of 300 million people. It's also bad timing, even if we are to pass social health care government paid. We're in a recession, and the government has absolutely no money. If it passes, it is just going to prolong the recession much longer than it already is. It's good for the 45 million Americans who don't have it, but I just don't see how the government is going to be funding this, especially at the given time. |
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11-27-2009, 12:12 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Dr. Feelgood
Name: Drew Pinsky, M.D. Gender: Male Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: People's Republic of California Posts: 4,123
Money: 24,006 Last Online: Today 02:48 PM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by JCpatriots It's not going to work in a country of 300 million people. It's also bad timing, even if we are to pass social health care government paid. We're in a recession, and the government has absolutely no money. If it passes, it is just going to prolong the recession much longer than it already is. | This shit right here.
When it does pass, they will have to do two things in order to pay for it:
1.) Raise taxes sky-fucking-high.
2.) Print moar money like there's no tomorrow.
I fail to understand how anyone can actually believe that there is such a thing as "free" healthcare. What we need instead is insurance reform, and doing away with the incentives that keep people on welfare instead of working.
__________________ --RMG |
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11-28-2009, 02:57 AM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Super Elite Member
Name: Chris Gender: Male Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hangin with Jimmy Hoffa in Sarasota, FL (now you know where he is) Posts: 5,452
Money: 844 Last Online: Today 10:30 AM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option 1: We're out of the recession
2: This Healthcare plan is part of the stimulus package I believe, so we already have the money in our possession.
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11-28-2009, 03:29 AM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Unquestionable Presence
Gender: Unsure Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Grim and frostbitten kingdoms Posts: 14,159
Money: 25,261 Last Online: Today 09:40 PM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option You can't have insurance reform without having health care reform.
__________________ Quote: |
Originally Posted by Brian on MSN Fuck it I'm building the best server ever.
It's going to host lolcat pictures for my family. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by hheartstrongg on MSN fuuuuuuuuuuuuck i need to take a shower so bad but im so fucking lazy | |
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11-28-2009, 05:37 AM
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#6 (permalink)
| | 95th Meridian
Name: Esmo(nd) Gender: Male Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UKGBNI Posts: 5,361
Money: 5,531 Last Online: Today 04:54 AM | Re: I support a Public Option Pah, let the Americans sort it out for themselves. But I love my NHS.
__________________ Brown best not grasp the nettle before March.  |
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11-28-2009, 06:01 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Peace, Love and Unity
Name: The Peacebringer Gender: Unsure Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 3,153
Money: 7,859 | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmo Pah, let the Americans sort it out for themselves. But I love my NHS. | Ouch. 
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Do what thou wilt. |
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11-28-2009, 06:42 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Unquestionable Presence
Gender: Unsure Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Grim and frostbitten kingdoms Posts: 14,159
Money: 25,261 Last Online: Today 09:40 PM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by Aannddyy Ouch.  | I hope it doesn't hurt too much, you might have to pay for it. 
__________________ Quote: |
Originally Posted by Brian on MSN Fuck it I'm building the best server ever.
It's going to host lolcat pictures for my family. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by hheartstrongg on MSN fuuuuuuuuuuuuck i need to take a shower so bad but im so fucking lazy | |
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11-28-2009, 07:21 AM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Standard VIP Member
Gender: Male Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,241
Money: 772 Last Online: Today 09:05 PM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option Oh wait health care reform? Remember in the Clinton days? I mean Hilary's task force when her hubby was president, on free universal health care. That got a lot of people angry.
DAMM COMMUNISTS!
What is Obama's plan exactly? I have not really read about it.
and Yes, I love my NHS too!
and why are Americans so afraid of socialism? Because of the red scare with McCarthy and such?
__________________ "YES London. You know, Fish, chips, cup o' tea, Bad food, worst weather, Mary fuckin' poppins, LONDON!" Avi from Snatch
Last edited by Bektas; 11-28-2009 at 07:23 AM..
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11-28-2009, 07:30 AM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Name: Kim Gender: Male Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 853
Money: 4,122 Last Online: Today 06:48 AM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option Last I read, the majority of the reform doesn't actually take place for another four or five years, so your concerns over our current (or past) recession need not exist, my friend.
__________________ Om mani padme hum. |
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11-28-2009, 08:46 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Super Elite Member
Name: Chris Gender: Male Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hangin with Jimmy Hoffa in Sarasota, FL (now you know where he is) Posts: 5,452
Money: 844 Last Online: Today 10:30 AM My Mood: | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnImGood I hope it doesn't hurt too much, you might have to pay for it.  | lol, +rep owed Quote:
Originally Posted by Bektas Oh wait health care reform? Remember in the Clinton days? I mean Hilary's task force when her hubby was president, on free universal health care. That got a lot of people angry.
DAMM COMMUNISTS!
What is Obama's plan exactly? I have not really read about it.
and Yes, I love my NHS too!
and why are Americans so afraid of socialism? Because of the red scare with McCarthy and such? | Answer to your question is a simple search away: Pros and Cons of the Healthcare Reform Proposal(s) Adeventhis asks, Can someone explain to me, or point me in the direction of a website that can explain to me, in a clear, 10-yr. could understand, nonpartisan matter the elements, pros and cons of the proposed HealthCare reform? In full disclosure, I have some partisan leanings—but I’ll do my best to put them aside. I’ll do my best for 10-year-old, but it’s complex enough that it will take a pretty gifted 10-year-old to understand. Fortunately, I also have some conservative followers who will be very quick to let me know if I fail to set them aside. (I’ll update this.) I should also caution that none of this is set in stone yet. Pros: - Everybody can have health insurance if they want it.
- Insurers will not be able to stop paying for people who are sick, even if they lose their jobs.
- People who cannot afford health insurance won’t have to pay as much money.
- People who are already sick will be eligible for healthcare.
- In the long run it will (hopefully) reduce medical costs significantly. Rising medical costs are the main reason the long-term budget projections are so alarming. Something has to be done. Unfortunately, this bill might not do enough. While there will definitely be some savings, it’s not clear that they will be as transformative as hoped.
- Health insurers can no longer cap coverage. In other words, they will no longer say that they have spent enough on you and you’re on your own for the next hundred thousand dollars. This should reduce medical bankruptcy.
- There will be increased competition in the insurance market. It might be from a public option. It might also be from some kind of non-profit, state-specific co-operative. This might push the healthcare companies to lower costs and provide better service.
Cons: - For the first ten years, it will cost about $100 billion a year. This is about the yearly cost of the Iraq War.
- The bill might increase the cost of health insurance. This depends on whether the gains from increased efficiencies and increased competition is outweighed by the cost of providing additional benefits.
- The Individual Mandate. You will have to either buy health insurance if you don’t have it or have a 2% tax increase. This insurance will be subsidized—but there is no guarantee that the subsidy will suffice for your specific situation.
- There will be a tax increase on very high income people. If you are making more than half a million (or maybe a full million) you will have about a 1% tax increase.
Other stuff that might be good or bad, depending how you see it - Increased government involvement in healthcare. Government already pays for huge amounts of healthcare—so this won’t be anything new.
- Additional regulation on insurance companies. This might increase costs. It will increase quality.
- Physicians will have increased access to information about what treatments are most effective for their cost. If two treatments work equally well and one is cheaper, doctors can recommend that one. This was almost universally considered a good thing until a few years ago, but some people have started criticizing it lately.
- Large employers may also have to offer health insurance to more of their employees. If they do not, they may have to pay some extra tax.
Things that aren’t true: - Death Panels
- Nazis
- Inability to choose your doctor
- Healthcare will be “rationed.” My conservative buddies will claim that this will “inevitably lead” to rationing. I disagree. I do think we can agree that there is nothing in the healthcare bill that will reduce the amount of healthcare available. The topic of what counts as “rationing” healthcare (and whether we already do it) is complex and contentious—but the healthcare bill will not directly cause additional rationing.
- Bureaucrats will tell doctors how to do their jobs (in ways that they don’t already do).
Did I miss anything important?
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11-28-2009, 12:31 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Peace, Love and Unity
Name: The Peacebringer Gender: Unsure Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 3,153
Money: 7,859 | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnImGood I hope it doesn't hurt too much, you might have to pay for it.  | Ahh. Very good, my friend.
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Do what thou wilt. |
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11-30-2009, 01:37 AM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 165
Money: -179 Last Online: 02-04-2010 05:20 AM | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy7 1: We're out of the recession
2: This Healthcare plan is part of the stimulus package I believe, so we already have the money in our possession. | Just quoting your first one there, I guess we are. But I still don't think stocks and DOW numbers and what not are back at what they were in Early 2008.
Now that I think about, there was a new Costco that opened up near my house. I dropped by to find that it was packed. What happened to recession? Rofl..:eek:
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"I'd show you the marks, but I don't want to pull my pants down right now..." Tallahassee Pain. (T Pizzle) |
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12-01-2009, 02:26 AM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 259
Money: 1,748 Last Online: 12-01-2009 02:27 AM | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy7
1: We're out of the recession
2: This Healthcare plan is part of the stimulus package I believe, so we already have the money in our possession. | Out of the recession my ass! Have you seen the latest unemployment numbers...you could argue that as a whole the economy is rebounding but we are far from the recession being over.
The health care plan is not part of the stimulus package, and the stimulus money isn't real money so technically we do not have the money. There are many parts to the stimulus package but health care reform is not one of them, health care reform is a way more complex separate issue.
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What I should have said was...Nothing!
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12-01-2009, 03:09 AM
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#15 (permalink)
| | New Member
Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 80
Money: 552 Last Online: 12-04-2009 09:47 AM | Re: I support a Public Option Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy7 1: We're out of the recession
2: This Healthcare plan is part of the stimulus package I believe, so we already have the money in our possession. | 1. Technically, we are. But that's not really actual growth as much as a temporary boost due to the $787 billion in stimulus that was passed. (Which will only boost the economy temporarily.)
2. Well, no. Some of the stimulus money is. Some. That's it. The $787 billion would only cover 3/4 the cost of the health care plan the government is seeking to pass currently, and that's if we used it all. Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnImGood You can't have insurance reform without having health care reform. | Yes, you can. I would actually abolish the insurance companies completely. It's insurance companies and lawsuits that are driving up our costs. Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Last I read, the majority of the reform doesn't actually take place for another four or five years, so your concerns over our current (or past) recession need not exist, my friend. | Right and wrong. The health care plan won't begin for some years, but the taxes to support the health care plan will begin almost immediately. So, we will be paying hundreds of billions in taxes towards something that won't start for years. This is to "save money" so we can pay for the plan easier when it begins. |
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