Discuss Obama's Healthcare plan.

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This shit right here.

When it does pass, they will have to do two things in order to pay for it:

1.) Raise taxes sky-fucking-high.



2.) Print moar money like there's no tomorrow.



I fail to understand how anyone can actually believe that there is such a thing as "free" healthcare. What we need instead is insurance reform, and doing away with the incentives that keep people on welfare instead of working.

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>> Ask me shit on Formspring <<

1: We're out of the recession

2: This Healthcare plan is part of the stimulus package I believe, so we already have the money in our possession.

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You can't have insurance reform without having health care reform.

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"I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
- George Carlin

Pah, let the Americans sort it out for themselves. But I love my NHS.

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Ouch.

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"Play it fucking loud!" - Bob Dylan

I hope it doesn't hurt too much, you might have to pay for it.

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"I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
- George Carlin

Oh wait health care reform? Remember in the Clinton days? I mean Hilary's task force when her hubby was president, on free universal health care. That got a lot of people angry.

DAMM COMMUNISTS!

What is Obama's plan exactly? I have not really read about it.

and Yes, I love my NHS too!

and why are Americans so afraid of socialism? Because of the red scare with McCarthy and such?

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Last I read, the majority of the reform doesn't actually take place for another four or five years, so your concerns over our current (or past) recession need not exist, my friend.

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lol, +rep owed


Answer to your question is a simple search away:


Pros and Cons of the Healthcare Reform Proposal(s)

Adeventhis asks,

Can someone explain to me, or point me in the direction of a website that can explain to me, in a clear, 10-yr. could understand, nonpartisan matter the elements, pros and cons of the proposed HealthCare reform?

In full disclosure, I have some partisan leanings—but I’ll do my best to put them aside. I’ll do my best for 10-year-old, but it’s complex enough that it will take a pretty gifted 10-year-old to understand. Fortunately, I also have some conservative followers who will be very quick to let me know if I fail to set them aside. (I’ll update this.) I should also caution that none of this is set in stone yet.
Pros:

• Everybody can have health insurance if they want it.
  • Insurers will not be able to stop paying for people who are sick, even if they lose their jobs.
  • People who cannot afford health insurance won’t have to pay as much money.
  • People who are already sick will be eligible for healthcare.
• In the long run it will (hopefully) reduce medical costs significantly. Rising medical costs are the main reason the long-term budget projections are so alarming. Something has to be done. Unfortunately, this bill might not do enough. While there will definitely be some savings, it’s not clear that they will be as transformative as hoped.
• Health insurers can no longer cap coverage. In other words, they will no longer say that they have spent enough on you and you’re on your own for the next hundred thousand dollars. This should reduce medical bankruptcy.
• There will be increased competition in the insurance market. It might be from a public option. It might also be from some kind of non-profit, state-specific co-operative. This might push the healthcare companies to lower costs and provide better service.

Cons:

• For the first ten years, it will cost about $100 billion a year. This is about the yearly cost of the Iraq War.
• The bill might increase the cost of health insurance. This depends on whether the gains from increased efficiencies and increased competition is outweighed by the cost of providing additional benefits.
• The Individual Mandate. You will have to either buy health insurance if you don’t have it or have a 2% tax increase. This insurance will be subsidized—but there is no guarantee that the subsidy will suffice for your specific situation.
• There will be a tax increase on very high income people. If you are making more than half a million (or maybe a full million) you will have about a 1% tax increase.

Other stuff that might be good or bad, depending how you see it

• Increased government involvement in healthcare. Government already pays for huge amounts of healthcare—so this won’t be anything new.
• Additional regulation on insurance companies. This might increase costs. It will increase quality.
• Physicians will have increased access to information about what treatments are most effective for their cost. If two treatments work equally well and one is cheaper, doctors can recommend that one. This was almost universally considered a good thing until a few years ago, but some people have started criticizing it lately.
• Large employers may also have to offer health insurance to more of their employees. If they do not, they may have to pay some extra tax.

Things that aren’t true:

• Death Panels
• Nazis
• Inability to choose your doctor
• Healthcare will be “rationed.” My conservative buddies will claim that this will “inevitably lead” to rationing. I disagree. I do think we can agree that there is nothing in the healthcare bill that will reduce the amount of healthcare available. The topic of what counts as “rationing” healthcare (and whether we already do it) is complex and contentious—but the healthcare bill will not directly cause additional rationing.
• Bureaucrats will tell doctors how to do their jobs (in ways that they don’t already do).

Did I miss anything important?

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Ahh. Very good, my friend.

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"Play it fucking loud!" - Bob Dylan

Just quoting your first one there, I guess we are. But I still don't think stocks and DOW numbers and what not are back at what they were in Early 2008.

Now that I think about, there was a new Costco that opened up near my house. I dropped by to find that it was packed. What happened to recession? Rofl..:eek:

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"I'd show you the marks, but I don't want to pull my pants down right now..." Tallahassee Pain. (T Pizzle)

Out of the recession my ass! Have you seen the latest unemployment numbers...you could argue that as a whole the economy is rebounding but we are far from the recession being over.

The health care plan is not part of the stimulus package, and the stimulus money isn't real money so technically we do not have the money. There are many parts to the stimulus package but health care reform is not one of them, health care reform is a way more complex separate issue.

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What I should have said was...Nothing!

1. Technically, we are. But that's not really actual growth as much as a temporary boost due to the $787 billion in stimulus that was passed. (Which will only boost the economy temporarily.)

2. Well, no. Some of the stimulus money is. Some. That's it. The $787 billion would only cover 3/4 the cost of the health care plan the government is seeking to pass currently, and that's if we used it all.

Yes, you can. I would actually abolish the insurance companies completely. It's insurance companies and lawsuits that are driving up our costs.

Right and wrong. The health care plan won't begin for some years, but the taxes to support the health care plan will begin almost immediately. So, we will be paying hundreds of billions in taxes towards something that won't start for years. This is to "save money" so we can pay for the plan easier when it begins.

Are you trying to tell me if you magically removed all the insurance companies the health care system wouldn't be affected at all? You wouldn't need to reform anything? You're kidding, right? The current health care system is based on insurance companies. If you remove them or modify them, you're going to have to follow suit with the health care system itself. They go hand in hand.

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"I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
- George Carlin