Big arguments sometimes

GreyFox · 11-17-2007, 12:13 PM

I have a twin brother, and once in a while we get into huge, huge, screaming arguments. Once it gets pretty heated, we don't even care any more that we might be waking one of parents up if they're sleeping. This kind of thing happened tonight. Then our mom or dad gets involved and it gets really, really bad, as they don't even understand what we were arguing about, and even if we explained what it was about, they still could never understand completely. Although I guess it probably is as simple as my brother and I get on eachother's nerves to such a level that we cannot "let it go" or "just forget about it". We don't have any friends that we go to and vent about how our parents or eachother are annoying sometimes. WE are eachother's only friends pretty much.

Anyway, these arguments don't happen too often, but when they do they are pretty bad, because most of the time we neutralize thoughts or try not to think about things too much, and then we just feel like expressing our emotions, usually in a pretty negative, argumentive way. I really hate not saying sorry at the end of arguments, but to make things extremely emotionally confusing and frustrating, I do not feel like saying sorry if the other person was to blame in the least. Of course, that shows how mature I am I guess, because I know most people can do this. I guess neither me or my brother, or either of my parents, can do this, as well. Nobody ever backs down. If they did, then the other person would be like "See, you were wrong!", and we hate that (again, shows how mature we are I guess).

A couple of times it has gotten so heated that my brother (or even my mom) will hit or slap the other on the shoulder. As stupid as this probably sounds, in the heat of the moment, we respond with another hit on their shoulder. I obviously don't like it when my brother does it to me, or him when I have done it to him. This has happened very rarely. Between me and my brother, it's when we get really, really angry, and it's a really, really immature response, but I guess it could just be the adrenaline that gets flowing. Tonight, my mom hit my brother because he was mouthing off like nuts and hitting him will not make him less mad of course...instead, of course, it makes him more angry, and the only thing that seems fair at the time is to hit back (as dumb as it is)..so my brother hit my mom back. This is obviously the absolutely worst thing we could possibly do to make it better...Our feelings are so mixed up and we know we should not, but we also think she should not hit us either...but I guess it's OK for her to hit us, since it's "necessary", as she says, at the moment, if the person is getting so out of control in their yelling. But then we should just sit there and supress our anger at getting hit I guess.

Our mom went up to bed, but then came back down and lectured us. She says, with increasing edge to her voice as we disagree with what she is saying, "What you need to learn to do is listen to what the other person is saying" (we are listening to what the other person is saying, that's why we get angry, we heard what they say), "You need to see some validity in what the other person is saying" (arguments usually occur when we DON'T see validity in what the other person is saying, of course, and even if we do, we'd never admit it, so I guess what we need to do is point out the valid points, or just brush it off and move on.). We say that we are annoyed by the fact that just telling us we need to do something isn't going to fix the problem magically (we need to fix it ourselves but it seems way too hard to fix it).

So the main problem is that it just seems too hard to fix this problem, I guess. I don't really know what the point of posting this is, at all, then, except for one big post of whining about my own problem. We feel extremely confused, angry, and depressed after these big arguments, and usually try to supress most of the feelings. It is NOT easy to avoid these types of arguments...I know that we should really work on listening to some "Social Anxiety" CDs (social anxiety is a whole 'nother extremely fun problem that my brother and I have....and of course contributes greatly to most of the problems I already discussed above) that our mom spent $375 on, because I do think those are the most realistic way of moving forward. But I really do not feel like spending 30 or more minutes a day, like I'm supposed to do, on reading hand-outs that go with these CDs. I'd much rather work on either something I need to do for school or applying for a college, or playing a video game. It is very hard to make myself do these. Even though I hate all these stupid problems I have, I can neutralize my negative thoughts the majority of the time, so I cannot very clearly imagine the results and probably really positive outcome that working on the CDs and stuff could have.

I think I might think so negatively neutrally most of the time because, for some reason, I don't feel like I deserve to be or think positive or be like other people. I have this really screwed up view that whenever I say something, like at school, that would suggest in the least that I have confidence about myself, I ALWAYS feel like others will think I'm selfish or something. This might stem from one time when I was in 2nd or 3rd grade, and a friend told me that they heard others saying that I bragged about myself (when I am pretty sure I did not). I sort of just thought of this last paragraph at the last minute, so I don't really know what else to say about it...

Newmember · 11-17-2007, 01:03 PM

Well, you appear to have a lot on your plate right now, my friend.

About you and your brother fighting: It really is nothing to worry about. Siblings fight ALL THE TIME, and it is natural for them to take their anger out on eachother. The thing you need to be careful about is when it turns violent. It may feel better at the moment hitting him, but hitting someone is NEVER the answer. I may sound condescending while speaking about this, but I'm sure you know better! Hitting solves nothing. All it succeeds in doing is building up more frustration. I am concerned about you saying your mom hits you. While it is a different story about parents, I still don't find it right for her to be hitting you. The way you make it sound, you brush it off like it is not that serious,(just light slaps) so I will take your word for it. However, it is important for you to be the 'bigger person' in this situation, and not hit your mom back. Parents deserve a certain amount of respect, and even when we don't agree with their methods of discipline we still need to abide by their rules. Even though it can be hard at some times.

So, in parting, I hope that you keep in mind a few of the things that I said. Remember that little arguments with your siblings are fine, but when it resorts to violence it is up to you to end it.

Good luck with your home life.

GreyFox · 11-17-2007, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the reply..

Both me and me brother definitely need to start with somehow thinking less negatively, which I think I mentioned above somewhere...I think my brother especially, at least in the case of last night, needs to work on not imitating or mocking people as much when we're arguing, especially when it just makes everyone else a lot more mad. Also, last night my brother was the only one doing any hitting, although that's not to say that I might've not hit him back eventually, but we obviously need to work on self control in that area. I know it's the wrong response, but it just seems like (last night at least) at the time the only thing my brother probably thought of was that she shouldn't hit him, and that he did not 'deserve it' like our mom said, even though he was talking back and swearing and mocking a whole bunch. It's really hard for me to just 'forget' about the fact that I don't "agree with their methods of discipline", and when I think about 'abide by their rules', for some reason that makes it sound like I'm really distant from my parents or something, and for most of me and brother's lives, we have not been distant at all. A lot of stuff that we think is interesting, like a story in the news or something funny or interesting in a movie, we usually talk to our mom or dad about (mostly mom). I guess I'm just kind of thinking about how other people seem to be just fine with hanging out with their friends constantly (we don't have more than one friend, and he's the only friend between us, and we don't talk to him much right now), and they just accept it that their parents are "annoying" or don't seem to understand them sometimes. The only person I can go talk to about my parents being "annoying" is my brother, or my parents. Obviously neither of those choices of people to go talk to is very good.

GreyFox · 11-17-2007, 11:10 PM

Now my brother (and maybe me too) are going to try to write down some stuff about being sorry, which we never usually do...usually we don't bother because it doesn't seem to even matter, and it seems like it should obvious that we're sorry anyway, and we don't feel like saying sorry when all we're going to get is a response about "Yeah, you should be sorry". I really hope our mom doesn't try to defend herself for slapping my brother, but she probably will, and will probably never say sorry for that. Which is another reason why it seems pretty pointless to even bother saying sorry or anything. The only reason I feel like we should is because usually we don't; I don't really foresee any necessarily positive outcomes to saying sorry at the moment besides the fact that I can express me being sorry..but then it doesn't seem fair when we're the only ones saying it..

Newmember · 11-18-2007, 07:48 AM

I didn't mean to make it sound like you were distant from your mom. I'm sorry if it came out like that, but that was not my intent. Initially I was wanting to point out the face that no matter how close we are to our parents we are not always going to agree with their rules. Typically parents always have our best interest in their mind. It is really good that you and your brother have such a strong bond in your life. A lot of people thrive off of friendships with others, but friends come and go, and parents will always be around.

Personally, I think this note you and your brother are going to write is an excellent idea. Even if your mom does not apologize, it is still great to get your sorrow off of your chest. Please, keep in mind, that it can be very difficult at times for parents to apologize, so try not to hold your mom in contempt if she does not carry out on her end. There is a saying that I think would fit very well into this feedback. "Forgive without being asked for forgiveness". Basically that is saying for you and your brother to forgive your mom, even if she does not apologize.

But who knows, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck, once again, with your family issues. I hope that if you ever want any support on any other issue, that you won't hesitate to make another topic or you could pm me at anytime. Thanks for reading.

GreyFox · 11-18-2007, 09:28 AM

Oh, no, I didn't think you were suggesting anything at all; that was sort of just my own thought that I expressed.

Things are doing a lot better now. Along with my brother making a note saying sorry, I grabbed a piece of paper and wrote down a goal on it of "Improving my self-control and thinking about stuff before I say it (within the next month)" and I put some squares on it to represent days. On days that I think I made some kind of improvement, even if was just something small, I will try to write down what it was. I thought that doing something more structured like this, and with a goal in mind, will make me actually try to improve myself. Not that I'm planning on 'improving' fast or anything, but usually I do practically nothing when these big fights happen, and this time I'm trying to at least do something about it (and this is something that I hope I can stick to).

Later in the day, after our mom came home from work, my brother gave her the note and showed her the calendar (then she took a nap and we did something with a friend for the afternoon meanwhile). We talked to her later and I expressed what it was that I wanted to do with the calendar paper. I hope by saying it out loud that I'll feel more responsible for dealing with it, because many times before I don't say anything out loud, let alone try to make a goal and calendar thingy. (Our mom was in a very forgiving mood, and there don't seem to be any hard feelings really...though I still feel bad obviously, about the whole thing : P ) So we're doing much better than we were when I made those previous posts. One thing that I'm trying to do right now is not forget about or think too negatively about stuff, and trying to catch myself when I do (I'm catching myself quite a bit... :P and I hope to keep it up)

tessa_s212 · 11-18-2007, 07:00 PM

When it comes to your twin, sometimes you need to just walk away. My sister and I used to get in many screaming and physical fights, but with age and maturity you learn to control yourself and get along even when they piss you off really bad.

How old are you?

GreyFox · 11-19-2007, 01:38 AM

We are 18...which I feel really ashamed to say...

I think that I (and hopefully my brother too) will improve if we continue to try to work on ignoring automatic negative thoughts and think about what we're saying more often. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I have been catching myself thinking negative a lot over the past day or two (pretty much constantly, especially when I'm not doing something distracting enough, like playing a video game), and I've been saying "It's OK" as a semi-positive statement to stop them...it's been sort of tough but I'm going to try hard not to get lazy about doing it..

SweetBoy · 11-19-2007, 02:53 AM

my big sister is 18 and argued with my little sister until she moved out the week before last. it is perfectly natural. they now seem to get on better. i guess absence makes the heart grow fonder.

GreyFox · 11-19-2007, 03:23 AM

It definitely would do some good if we separated more often probably...because actually pretty much every serious argument we get into with our parents begins when they get sick of hearing me and my brother argue. I don't really know where to go, though, that would separate us for very long...we could go for a ride with our bike I guess, but it's getting close to Winter soon and then we can't do that for a while...It really sort of stinks, but at school, we've chosen the same classes for a while, and so we always end up having the same schedule (with the way they make the schedules, it's just way too hard to have us be in classes different semesters or different times of day). So we're around eachother every single second of the day...It's nice to hear other people say that it's natural and stuff, because most of the time I feel really depressed and like it's all my fault (or my brother's fault :P heh)...when it's really mostly because we're just around eachother way too much.

SweetBoy · 11-19-2007, 03:34 AM

do you have any friends you can confide in and stay with

MME1122 · 11-19-2007, 04:57 AM

i read the first 3 sentances n got 2 bored...

uh, sorry?

i didnt read it so i dont have much advice. i fight with my brothers all the time, it doesnt really bother me though...theyre 3 n 4 years younger then me. i guess its worse if ur twins.

x.VampireSaliva · 11-19-2007, 07:28 AM

Sounds like you have alot of problems right now, but every sibling fights. They fight all the time so it's normal.
I think you should try just avoiding talking to your brother for awhile if possible and give yourselves some time to cool down, just tell him you are not in the mood to get into another fight and you think you two need to avoid each other for awhile.

GreyFox · 11-19-2007, 08:25 AM

Thanks for all suggestions..I will try to do something like step away when I think I might get into an argument. Maybe it would help if the two computers that we sit on weren't right next to eachother (when we sit down we're about a foot apart from eachother, lol ). Due to the location of plugs and other furniture in the room, though, we can't have it any other way...Maybe some day we'll figure out some different arrangement, but for now I'll have to just work on better self-control 'n stuff..