It's blatantly obvious to me your a 20 ft purple platapys, doesn't mean it's true. And GaGa is an icon because she represents flamboyance, pride, an self acceptance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lady Gaga
-
-
cazoofoo wrote:
It's blatantly obvious to me your a 20 ft purple platapys, doesn't mean it's true. And GaGa is an icon because she represents flamboyance, pride, an self acceptance.
Why would you have pride for being gay? You feel pride for something you strive for, not something that happened accidentally at birth. -
cazoofoo wrote:
It's blatantly obvious to me your a 20 ft purple platapys, doesn't mean it's true. And GaGa is an icon because she represents flamboyance, pride, an self acceptance.
Why does a gay icon have to represent flamboyance? Many unheard people of the LGBT community hate the fact that the typical stereotype of a gay man is so flamboyant when not all are like that. A gay icon does not have to be a woman, and certainly doesn't have to be flamboyant. They should be able to represent the gay community in a way that shows that not all people of the LGBT community can be so easily stereotyped, and do it for a selfless reason.
I don't know too much about Lady Gaga, though I've heard more of her songs than I care to count. So tell me, before her rise to fame, what did she do for the LGBT community?
---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------
OverlyCreative wrote:
I find it interesting that someone could so blatantly state that GaGa has no talent. Then again, the meaning of "talent" is quite varied from individual to individual. Her singing bleeds with beauty and power, and her creative ability seems to be amazing. I don't want to say that the ability to play the piano so beautifuly is a talent since it is such a common ability these days, but GaGa is very good at this as well. She can create lyrics with such deep meaning that you must actually "think" about what you are hearing to fully comprehend the string of words that are being said to you. And I adore this trait about her music.
Of course anyone can spew random crap into a microphone and put it out there, but the fact that she goes on to actually explain the true meanings of her songs and that her meaning is so interesting makes her such a lovely person. Her music is not like other Pop music out there. It is not just "I wanna fuck you all night long", "Lets go to the club and have some fun!", it is truly different. German in a club song from an American artist? French. Spanish. And she makes it all sounds so lovely. With power, passion and meaining behind it all.
I'm not sure we're really talking about the same artist here.
Then again, anyone can take a piece of crap and pull some deep, beautiful, psychological meaning out of it. -
David wrote:
Eh, somewhat, but I go with gay as of late because I lean considerably more towards pp. :awesome:
Same At the moment :awesome:
Also, as far as GAGA goes, she has a very good voice but i dislike the way she uses it. As for an icon then i dunno i have never seen her as an icon but then again the only gay icon who i think is a real icon for gays is mary griffith and all that she did. Celebrities such as GaGa and Elton John i have never seen as icons as i just don't. I don't particuarly want to be like them at all and so they are not icons to me. But meh, thats just me
[CENTER] [/CENTER] -
Tombgeek wrote:
Why would you have pride for being gay? You feel pride for something you strive for, not something that happened accidentally at birth.
So ethnic and deaf pride don't exist?
---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
MasterMayhem wrote:
Why does a gay icon have to represent flamboyance? Many unheard people of the LGBT community hate the fact that the typical stereotype of a gay man is so flamboyant when not all are like that. A gay icon does not have to be a woman, and certainly doesn't have to be flamboyant. They should be able to represent the gay community in a way that shows that not all people of the LGBT community can be so easily stereotyped, and do it for a selfless reason.
Because the gay community is flamboyant. Gay culture itself camp. Go to a gay bar, go to a pride parade. It's pretty damn flaming. No-one's saying all LGBT are fabulous, but damn lot are, and the culture reflects that. Including it's icons. I'm not saying all gay icons have to have rainbows bleeding from their mouths, but it's a common trait.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] -
cazoofoo wrote:
So ethnic and deaf pride don't exist?
---------- Post added at 09:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------
Because the gay community is flamboyant. Gay culture itself camp. Go to a gay bar, go to a pride parade. It's pretty damn flaming. No-one's saying all LGBT are fabulous, but damn lot are, and the culture reflects that. Including it's icons. I'm not saying all gay icons have to have rainbows bleeding from their mouths, but it's a common trait.
Actually, it's more that the outgoing, outspoken ones are. That doesn't mean all, or even a lot are. The gay community is flamboyant because the loudest ones are obviously going to be the only ones heard. There's a great, vast community of gays who are silent and non-flamboyant.
That being said, someone does not have to be flamboyant to represent the gay community. It's not a dire necessity. If so many think it is, then they should no longer be allowed to complain about stereotypes, especially since they would be the ones instigating them. -
Well than that's our fault for not being more outspoken isn't it?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-
No. I just think it's stupid that you seem to imply that a gay icon must be(aside from a woman) flamboyant. The outspoken portion of the gay community can speak well enough for themselves. A gay icon should represent all, flamboyant or not, not just a few.
-
cazoofoo wrote:
I'm not saying all gay icons have to have rainbows bleeding from their mouths, but it's a common trait.
Read my posts better.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] -
MasterMayhem wrote:
I'm not sure we're really talking about the same artist here.
Then again, anyone can take a piece of crap and pull some deep, beautiful, psychological meaning out of it.
Have you even taken a listen to her latest music, or even music from The Fame Monster? GaGa's music isn't entirely what is being poured into your ears on the surface. I am sure even you could tell that some of her songs like 'Hair' have powerful emotions and meanings in them. I will admit however, that prior to The Fame Monster many of her songs were very "typical", but even then songs like Pokerface and Beautiful Dirty Rich carried alternate meanings than their somewhat easily readable surfaces.
You call her music crap. I respect your opinion. You believe it is crap, I believe it is powerful. I cannot convince you otherwise. Or rather, I will not attempt to, as it will most likely be pointless. I try to keep a very open mind when it comes to the art people favor. You say you aren't sure we are referring to the same artist, I say you should take a small peak at her newest album. She can be beautiful.[CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER] -
cazoofoo wrote:
So ethnic and deaf pride don't exist?
Why would someone be proud of their ethnicity or the fact that they're deaf? People who have pride for traits that are accidental are a bit dim as far as I'm concerned. Look at Neo-Nazism. Apart from Martin Luther's Anti-Judaism ideology, it's purely based on pride for being Caucasian.
I'm not proud of the fact I'm gay, purely because it's nothing worth pride. I'm not ashamed of it, but I'm definitely not going to feel proud about it. Pride should be reserved for something you strive for, something you've sweated and bled for. Being gay hardly counts as an achievement.
cazoofoo wrote:
Because the gay community is flamboyant. Gay culture itself camp. Go to a gay bar, go to a pride parade. It's pretty damn flaming. No-one's saying all LGBT are fabulous, but damn lot are, and the culture reflects that. Including it's icons. I'm not saying all gay icons have to have rainbows bleeding from their mouths, but it's a common trait.
That's a common misconception. A large portion of homosexual people are not as flamboyant as myths and stereotypes state. It's a bullshit lie created by media. Most gay prides that are televised only show the people who are half-naked, prancing around and embarrassing themselves. The ordinary people who dress normally are often not shown purely because it doesn't fuel the homophobia-fire.
MasterMayhem wrote:
Actually, it's more that the outgoing, outspoken ones are. That doesn't mean all, or even a lot are. The gay community is flamboyant because the loudest ones are obviously going to be the only ones heard. There's a great, vast community of gays who are silent and non-flamboyant.
That being said, someone does not have to be flamboyant to represent the gay community. It's not a dire necessity. If so many think it is, then they should no longer be allowed to complain about stereotypes, especially since they would be the ones instigating them.
I want to
you in real life.
But seriously, you're right. The gay community wants to be rid of the stereotype that forever lingers. These so-called "gay icons" and these loud, effeminate gays are not helping. Including that moron Perez Hilton. He's an embarrassment to the community. He should be placed on an island and left to fend for himself.
I'm all for being yourself, but there's a line that has to be drawn somewhere. Being practically naked in public, showing some woody, while dancing on a platform holding an LGBT flag sets the worst example for the community, and I facepalm whenever I see people doing that. -
Why? If someone wants to be like that that's their choice. They're being gay in their own little way, and you can be as gay as you want. They're representing themselves as fabulous, not you. You have a lot of fem-hate going on. And "pride", to a lot means accepting who you are, and not letting anyone take that away from you. Black pride is sticking a middle to finger to racism, gay pride is saying fuck you to homophobia.
Although I agree Perez is a fucking moron.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] -
-
Be a better tommorow! :awesome:[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-
cazoofoo wrote:
Why? If someone wants to be like that that's their choice. They're being gay in their own little way, and you can be as gay as you want. They're representing themselves as fabulous, not you.
I'm all for people being themselves. I'm not saying they can't be like that, but they should do it in the privacy of their own home or in a club. Out on public, one should represent themselves in a respectable manner. That's just how I was taught. Hell, I dislike going out in public with my shirt off. To me, it's disrespectful and rude.
cazoofoo wrote:
You have a lot of fem-hate going on.
I don't hate effeminate gays. Unless you didn't know, my best friend is an effeminate gay guy. They can be as effeminate as they want. I don't care. I just dislike the judgemental, oh-you-look-nasty-get-new-shoes type of effeminate gay guys, as well as the people who give the community a bad name. They irritate the living shit out of me.
cazoofoo wrote:
And "pride", to a lot means accepting who you are, and not letting anyone take that away from you. Black pride is sticking a middle to finger to racism, gay pride is saying fuck you to homophobia.
Perhaps. That's debatable. But I still stand by my feelings towards pride. To me, pride is something you work towards. Fighting for rights, from my perspective, doesn't count as being proud. It's literally just fighting for rights that should have been granted in the first place. I accept who I am, but I'm not going to now act as though it's the only part of me. Who I sleep with hardly counts as something worth pride, just as I'm not proud of being Caucasian with ash-blond hair and having a keen interest in computers, Accounting and literature. I'm not ashamed, but I'm not proud. -
Fair do.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
-
hmmm... this thread has certainly been an interesting read. I'm not going to take either side. I can see the points both are making and see good and bad in both.
Tombgeek wrote:
I'm all for people being themselves. I'm not saying they can't be like that, but they should do it in the privacy of their own home or in a club. Out on public, one should represent themselves in a respectable manner. That's just how I was taught. Hell, I dislike going out in public with my shirt off. To me, it's disrespectful and rude.
This is certainly one thing I disagree with. I'm all for people being polite and respectful at all times. What I don't understand however is how an effeminate gay male being them-self, ie dressing somewhat effeminately, acting a bit camp etc. is rude or disrespectful. If these same effeminate gays were actually being disrespectful by insulting others etc then I would have a problem with it.
I think it's a basic right to be able to express oneself as you wish, without fear of condescension, so long as you yourself are not doing the condescending.
Tombgeek wrote:
I don't hate effeminate gays. Unless you didn't know, my best friend is an effeminate gay guy. They can be as effeminate as they want. I don't care. I just dislike the judgemental, oh-you-look-nasty-get-new-shoes type of effeminate gay guys, as well as the people who give the community a bad name. They irritate the living shit out of me.
This here, as i think you've admitted, is stereotyping. Not all effeminate gays will go around and insult people based on their looks etc, just like not all gay guys are effeminate. But to suggest that flamboyant gay men should confine their flamboyance and camp-ness to private places and venues and not outwardly express themselves in public merely because it fuels the homophobic arguments is as bad as those very homophobics saying that all gay guys should act "normal" when in public because they feel uncomfortable.
Tombgeek wrote:
Perhaps. That's debatable. But I still stand by my feelings towards pride. To me, pride is something you work towards. Fighting for rights, from my perspective, doesn't count as being proud. It's literally just fighting for rights that should have been granted in the first place. I accept who I am, but I'm not going to now act as though it's the only part of me. Who I sleep with hardly counts as something worth pride, just as I'm not proud of being Caucasian with ash-blond hair and having a keen interest in computers, Accounting and literature. I'm not ashamed, but I'm not proud.
Here I partly agree with. The fact that you are gay is not something to be proud of. However I do believe that self acceptance is something you strive for every day of your life. Much like the fight for equal rights. They're something you fight for endlessly. The fight will make happy and sad, the continued efforts will make you more and more determined to achieve your goal.
If you're the type of person, be it gay, straight, flamboyant or not, who fights to get these rights by marching in GLBT parades, attending demonstrations (for example protests at Town Hall etc), spread the message on-line etc, I think you have the right to feel proud of your efforts to gain equality. Likewise you should feel proud of yourself for being able to accept yourself as you are and being able to express yourself as you wish because for some this journey to self acceptance is an arduous one.[LEFT][COLOR="Black"]“Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][RIGHT]Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore - Just chillin' out down here at Kings Cross Station y'all! It's a bit foggy though... what's up with that?[/RIGHT][/COLOR]
[CENTER]
[/CENTER] -
Oh and as for the actual Lady Gaga question. I don't personally see her as a gay icon. I see her as a talented musician who supports gay rights.
I'm not a major fan of her music and definitely prefer her music when it's simple, Cut down. I love it when she sits in fron of a piano and just sings her heart out without all the audio effects and electro-pop synths. Say what you will, she's got a good voice and has the ability to write some good lyrics. She's also an accomplished entertainer.
I think the reason a lot of gay people identify with her is very similar to why Cher identified so well with the gay community. They embody a sense of unapologetic freedom and fearlessness that most of us can only dream of achieving. They're out there living out every single one of their childhood fantasies. People see this and can only admire them for doing so.[LEFT][COLOR="Black"]“Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][RIGHT]Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore - Just chillin' out down here at Kings Cross Station y'all! It's a bit foggy though... what's up with that?[/RIGHT][/COLOR]
[CENTER][/CENTER] -
Bazinga! wrote:
This is certainly one thing I disagree with. I'm all for people being polite and respectful at all times. What I don't understand however is how an effeminate gay male being them-self, ie dressing somewhat effeminately, acting a bit camp etc. is rude or disrespectful. If these same effeminate gays were actually being disrespectful by insulting others etc then I would have a problem with it.
I think it's a basic right to be able to express oneself as you wish, without fear of condescension, so long as you yourself are not doing the condescending.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. What I mean in a respectable manner is just dressing how you want, just not...you know, practically naked. I was more referring to clothing, not personality.
People can dress how they want. I was referring to the people at gay prides who tend to walk around practically naked.
This is respectable
This, well...not so much.
Of course, this doesn't only refer to effeminate gay guys. The bear subculture, as well as the leather and various others, has also been guilty of this, which is ironic because the whole point of the culture is not to identify with the stereotype.
Bazinga! wrote:
This here, as i think you've admitted, is stereotyping. Not all effeminate gays will go around and insult people based on their looks etc, just like not all gay guys are effeminate. But to suggest that flamboyant gay men should confine their flamboyance and camp-ness to private places and venues and not outwardly express themselves in public merely because it fuels the homophobic arguments is as bad as those very homophobics saying that all gay guys should act "normal" when in public because they feel uncomfortable.
I know. I never said they all did. Some do, however. It is those people who irritate me and the problem is that they are the most vocal in the community. Effeminate people as a whole don't irritate me. If anything, I find them friendly and great friends. It's the stereotypical queens that irritate me, particularly the insulting and rude ones (and I've met one or two). People can act as they want.
Bazinga! wrote:
If you're the type of person, be it gay, straight, flamboyant or not, who fights to get these rights by marching in GLBT parades, attending demonstrations (for example protests at Town Hall etc), spread the message on-line etc, I think you have the right to feel proud of your efforts to gain equality. Likewise you should feel proud of yourself for being able to accept yourself as you are and being able to express yourself as you wish because for some this journey to self acceptance is an arduous one.
I agree with you there.
-
Share