if you think i'm (or anyone is) going to read all of that you are seriously mistaken

Not my problem.
If you don't read and respond then I win by acquiescence. It also proves your immaturity to actually debate anything.

Acquiescence: Agreement or consent by silence or without objection;

(You should also learn how to actually type. Capitalizing isn't that blasted hard.)

first. you have won nothing second i've already stated my opinin on this thread multiple times perhaps you should just open your eyes and read... and i happen to love debates i was just sharing how i felt about the length of your post

I am piling up a TON of examples of the emotionally and mentally immature

Know It All

ooh... good one real original

KIA&SS wrote:

I am piling up a TON of examples of the emotionally and mentally immature

Know It All

Going on the offensive against her? Why?

Most of the blind faith business is believing you'll have a job just because you finished school.

that's so true

I have no blind faith, if I die in my sleep, I die in my sleep. (Using your example)

Also, on the topic of the big bang, the hadron collider, it shall be interesting to see if they actually do replicate the big bang in that setting. Would that put every religious persons faith in question?

Can't be fucked writing a long reply, just woke up.

I have no blind faith, if I die in my sleep, I die in my sleep.

Alright, the next time you flip a light switch don't have any faith it will turn on. The next time you hit the brakes in your car don't have any faith that they will work. (You might consider driving slower.)

Also, on the topic of the big bang, the hadron collider, it shall be interesting to see if they actually do replicate the big bang in that setting. Would that put every religious persons faith in question?

If they replicated the Big Bang in the Hadron Collider scenario then it still wouldn't prove squat. People would still ask questions like what made the particles start moving? Where did the particles come from in the first place?

Your still left with two religious arguments.

SS

Okay, well, I've switched a light switch on, didn't have faith that it will turn on, it turned on.

I'll get back to you on the car part.

The vacuum of space, I heard it has no friction, I heard things are constantly moving up there.

KIA&SS wrote:

If they replicated the Big Bang in the Hadron Collider scenario then it still wouldn't prove squat. People would still ask questions like what made the particles start moving? Where did the particles come from in the first place?

You're still left with two religious arguments.

SS

Where did God come from?

Where did God come from?

Where did the dot that blew up come from? Where did the particles that exploded come from?

You see... no matter which one you chose, after the questions you are left with only your belief. Do you believe the Big Bang, God, or Zeus (who didn't create squat if you read about him).


Here is the basics of both religious arguments.

Big Bang + Evolution= The belief that nothing, at no time, with no design, for no reason, exploded to create everything.

God + Creation = The belief that someone, at a specific time, with a specific thought, for His own reasons, created everything.

(And just for the fun of it.) Zeus + Humor = Laughed at everyone while betting with the other Titan's on who would win the worlds wars.:rofl:


SS

A coincidental start to our universe is more rational than a coincidental birth of a big man in the sky.

Plus, just because you regard the Big Bang as the start of our universe doesn't mean that it's a belief. It's a scientific fact that you adhere to.

How it came about, is something we don't understand fully... yet. The thing with theories backed by science is that they are amendable as new evidence arises.

Religion is not. it is set in stone. Which is why you can't take a piece of a Bible, for example, and mix it with Evolution. It simply doesn't work that way. It's either one or the other - as both do not make sense when they are paired up. Even the most rational reasoning behind a mixed idea doesn't make sense.

At least with the Big Bang, we don't put all of our questions onto a mystical being in the sky. Once you start basing everything on a "God", then you begin to wonder the reasons behind the bad things that happen and/or exist on this world. You question the reasoning behind everything in the same way a supreme being would (as you would expect). In fact, you would question the whole pointless reasoning behind creating "life" as we know it. Questions such as, why are there parasites on this world that borrow into the eyes of African children and eat away at their brains? What kind of a sick supreme being would see any purpose in creating them? Why are there wisdom teeth? Did this supreme being fail in his all-perfect creation? Was he not meant to be all-perfect and all-powerful? Did he somehow make a mistake? Why is there a Neptune? What purpose is there of such a planet that has no bearing on our world and people? You could go on, and on.

Once you do this, you begin to understand why a coincidental (as far as we know) start to our universe is more likely, and why a "mind" behind it all is the least likely.

With that said, I don't think there was nothing before the Big Bang. I think that the Big Bang happened because of + (positive) and - (negative) coming together to form a reaction. Go to a field, dig a hole... you see a hole, but you also see the contents you have dug up to create that hole. This is before the Big Bang. Now place the contents you have dug out from the ground back into the hole - you now have the surface of the field back to the way it was, intact. This is the Big Bang. Black holes and such are the lasting proof that the universe existed before the Big Bang, but that's way too long and complex of a story for a forum like this! But that's just partly what I believe...

In the end, I just feel that we don't know much yet to decide on what we think is true. I personally believe that religion has been a blight on our advancement as a species, particularly during the Dark Ages - when religion blocked all forms of creative and innovative ideas about the world and universe and set us back hundreds of years. But I also feel that a more open understanding of life is needed and I don't think many would object to a religion or a belief in a supreme being if it were backed by some form of evidence or willing to accept the scientific finds throughout history instead of falling on the most ignorant reasoning of them all - "God did it".

Woah, that was deep Victoria. Real deep.

Where did the materials for the for the big bang come from?

KIA&SS wrote:

Where did the dot that blew up come from? Where did the particles that exploded come from?

You see... no matter which one you chose, after the questions you are left with only your belief. Do you believe the Big Bang, God, or Zeus (who didn't create squat if you read about him).

My point is that your argument didn't solve the problem when you said it... You just gave the problem one more thing to explain

KIA&SS wrote:

Here is the basics of both religious arguments.

Big Bang + Evolution= The belief that nothing, at no time, with no design, for no reason, exploded to create everything.

Here you protest the Abrahamic belief that a beginning and ending of time is necessary for our existence. It's not. The beginning and end are an Abrahamic concept.

KIA&SS wrote:

(And just for the fun of it.) Zeus + Humor = Laughed at everyone while betting with the other Titan's on who would win the worlds wars.:rofl:


SS

All I have to say about this is you literally have just as much proof of your God's existence as the practitioners of Greek Mythology did.

i believe that there will never be a scientific proof that God either exists or doesn't. God exists only for those with faith... acceptance of the unprovable... and for those who have a personal r/s with Him. those who who are open-minded and willing to transcend themselves.

jmho

My point is that your argument didn't solve the problem when you said it... You just gave the problem one more thing to explain

You haven't solved the problem either.

Here you protest the Abrahamic belief that a beginning and ending of time is necessary for our existence. It's not. The beginning and end are an Abrahamic concept.

I am not sure I get your point.
And who the crud believes in Abraham? That's worse then Zeus!

All I have to say about this is you literally have just as much proof of your God's existence as the practitioners of Greek Mythology did.

Okay... I still don't remember stating my belief on God.
No one has any more proof for their Big Bang then they have for their God (or for the Greek gods). No one was there for either.

Plus, just because you regard the Big Bang as the start of our universe doesn't mean that it's a belief. It's a scientific fact that you adhere to.

The Big Bang is not a scientific fact as it cannot and has not ever been recreated, observed or demonstrated. The Big Bang is a theory and not a fact! Nor do scientists claim it is a fact they claim it is a theory. Here is a good article to demonstrate this.

Big Bang Theory

As an example here is the first paragraph of the article.

The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

It clearly states here that the Big Bang is theory and it is only an effort to explain, it is not a fact.

How it came about, is something we don't understand fully... yet. The thing with theories backed by science is that they are amendable as new evidence arises.

So... if the theory of a God suddenly has scientific evidence to support it? Or maybe that numerous gods exist? Or perhaps that Aliens did it? What then?
None of it is fully understood by anyone and therefore is all based on belief.

Religion is not. it is set in stone. Which is why you can't take a piece of a Bible, for example, and mix it with Evolution. It simply doesn't work that way. It's either one or the other - as both do not make sense when they are paired up. Even the most rational reasoning behind a mixed idea doesn't make sense.

Religion sucks.

At least with the Big Bang, we don't put all of our questions onto a mystical being in the sky.

No you put them in a soup, made out of a spec of dirt, the appeared out of nothing, that somehow exploded. Boy thats logic for you.

Once you start basing everything on a "God", then you begin to wonder the reasons behind the bad things that happen and/or exist on this world. You question the reasoning behind everything in the same way a supreme being would (as you would expect). In fact, you would question the whole pointless reasoning behind creating "life" as we know it. Questions such as, why are there parasites on this world that borrow into the eyes of African children and eat away at their brains? What kind of a sick supreme being would see any purpose in creating them? Why are there wisdom teeth? Did this supreme being fail in his all-perfect creation? Was he not meant to be all-perfect and all-powerful? Did he somehow make a mistake? Why is there a Neptune? What purpose is there of such a planet that has no bearing on our world and people? You could go on, and on.

Well some Christians can answer you questions. I asked a Christian some of your questions (in a slightly different manner). Most just replied with Gods will yada yada yada. But one guy actually had answers. These were his answers (in red).
Why are there bad things like cancer, parasites, disease? God created everything perfect at the beginning. When God first made the earth the parasites hurt no one and there was no disease. But man thought he knew better and disobeyed God. Because man disobeyed God death and sickness entered the world. Even though we had disobeyed God, he was heart broken for us because death had entered the perfect world. Because he wanted his creation to use their free will to choose to love him he sacrificed his own son to take the punishment for the sins that man committed.
Then I asked why if God was so powerful why he couldn't just fix it? Because if he just fixed it we would be like robots with no freewill. That would be a pointless life.
Why did he create pointless things that no one can even see like millions of stars? What was the point? Just to prove how small humans really are because we have huge egos. We like to make ourselves the center of the world but every time we look up we see just how stupid that is.

So that was his answers to my questions any how. Shrugs.

With that said, I don't think there was nothing before the Big Bang. I think that the Big Bang happened because of + (positive) and - (negative) coming together to form a reaction. Go to a field, dig a hole... you see a hole, but you also see the contents you have dug up to create that hole. This is before the Big Bang. Now place the contents you have dug out from the ground back into the hole - you now have the surface of the field back to the way it was, intact. This is the Big Bang. Black holes and such are the lasting proof that the universe existed before the Big Bang, but that's way too long and complex of a story for a forum like this! But that's just partly what I believe...

In other words according to your last sentence... its your blasted religion and I personally don't want your religion shoved down my throat when I go to science class! Practice your religion elsewhere! I don't care what you believe I just don't want to be forced into learning your nonsense. You don't force yours I wont force mine, and the world will run better.

I personally believe that religion has been a blight on our advancement as a species, particularly during the Dark Ages - when religion blocked all forms of creative and innovative ideas about the world and universe and set us back hundreds of years. But I also feel that a more open understanding of life is needed and I don't think many would object to a religion or a belief in a supreme being if it were backed by some form of evidence or willing to accept the scientific finds throughout history instead of falling on the most ignorant reasoning of them all - "God did it".

Religion is a blight and lie and you have fallen into its trap and you are so blind that you cant even tell that you are buying into a load of crud. That... is sad.
Your Big Bang has no evidence, it is only a theory and that is all any scientist has ever claimed it was... a theory, a belief, an effort, an assumption, a religion.

Saying "God Did It" might be ignorant but saying "Nothing Did It" is just as ignorant.

SS

Believe in whatever you feel right in believing, believe in Unicorns, Fairies, Zeus, Santa, The Big Bang, or God but don't force me to learn your religion and then call it fact.

how long have you been working on that post? but i must admit.... i admire you in that you give meaningful responses most of the time

KIA&SS wrote:

You haven't solved the problem either.

That's my point. My idea is just as good as yours :p

KIA&SS wrote:

I am not sure I get your point.
And who the crud believes in Abraham? That's worse then Zeus!

Abrahamic religions are religions that stem from the Abraham. Thus you get Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I was trying to point out that the need for a timeline with a planned beginning and end is an Abrahamic belief. What if time is instead of a line, say a circle. That was there is no beginning and end, but an awesome circular timeline. That way, you don't need a start and a finish.

KIA&SS wrote:

Okay... I still don't remember stating my belief on God.
No one has any more proof for their Big Bang then they have for their God (or for the Greek gods). No one was there for either.

I agree with you, except for the part where there is no explanation for either. There is plenty of explanation for the Big Bang. For example there is why we can only see so far out into the stars, and when we do we see the primeval light called the cosmic background radiation. And in that we can see what our universe looked like just after the big bang. Isn't that awesome? We can see 13.7 billion years into the past just by looking through a powerful enough telescope at the sky. And at that point we see the evidence of the big bang. Light that's been scattered up so that there aren't any groupings that are planets and stars. So all the electrons are bouncing around making lots of light and no planets and stars. This look at our universe's past has made us come to the conclusion of the Big Bang.

Also this is my reply to a theory is just an assumption: