Abortion

    • Re: Abortion

      Kyle. wrote:

      tl;dr


      don't even bother posting if you're just going to say that

      Leonodas wrote:

      Thank you for at least answering honestly and understanding.

      Personally, I don't know what to think because while I have my own personal convictions against abortion, I also believe in personal choice. Of course we come down to the moral dilemma of how we define a "baby".

      I want to know where we draw the line with abortion. At birth? Later? In your opinion, it appears to be before birth, but would you support after-birth abortions? At what age would it be wrong to abort?

      Just curious. Thank you for actually carrying the discussion instead of wasting everyone's time.


      After-birth abortions are the most disgusting thing ever oh my god anyone who gets one, I really don't give a shit what their personal problem is, is a fucking psycho who needs to seek help asap.
    • Re: Abortion

      Leonodas wrote:

      Thank you for at least answering honestly and understanding.

      Personally, I don't know what to think because while I have my own personal convictions against abortion, I also believe in personal choice. Of course we come down to the moral dilemma of how we define a "baby".

      I want to know where we draw the line with abortion. At birth? Later? In your opinion, it appears to be before birth, but would you support after-birth abortions? At what age would it be wrong to abort?

      Just curious. Thank you for actually carrying the discussion instead of wasting everyone's time. :)


      Welcome.
      I am very passionate about a woman's right to choice. lol

      To me, a baby is a separate entity from the mother. A fetus is unborn and still living within the mother, but that's just my opinion. Everyone's differs obviously which is why (Here, at least) there really aren't many(if any) laws governing it because it's not a black and white issue. Some doctors have different codes of ethics though, so some will only do abortions up until a certain point, be it 16,20,24+ weeks.
      Many will do it until the moment you deliver depending on circumstances.

      As for after birth "abortions" I see it more as infanticide, but I do agree with merciful euthanasia, so if there was some debilitating or terminal disease or something, I'd more than likely agree with it being done as soon as possible after confirmation of the disease. No sense letting it live a shitty, suffering life before doing so. As for age, no age limit. Anyone of any age could benefit more from euthanasia than from suffering with some terrible disease but if the person is no longer a minor, obviously they should be able to make the decision for themselves.
      June 26 2010<3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Shonna ().

    • Re: Abortion

      The bombest wrote:

      If the female gets rape or protection breaks, etc. then abortion is okay.
      But if the female just wants to have sex and wants to be slutty, then she should pay for her slutty fun.


      If protection breaks? Are you fucking kidding me?
      When a man and a woman have sexual intercourse, they are immediately responsible for anything at may happen, and are taking a chance that the woman COULD possibly get pregnant if the condom breaks or birth control fails, etc. By letting her just get an abortion because of an unplanned problem, may give her the idea that that she doesn't always have to live with mistakes because she can just "get rid of them". She clearly knew that there is a chance that the protection may not do its job, and aborting her baby would just be an unfair way to solve her problem.
    • Re: Abortion

      suck my dick bitch

      I know for a fact that no matter what the circumstances are, as long as there isn't a huge chance that I'll die if I give birth to the child, that I would NEVER get an abortion, because I am such a strong advocate for pro-lifers. Abortion is a subject that I'm extremely passionate about (weird as it sounds LOL) and I do believe that women use it as an easy way out, because they do. Today's society allows us to be so irresponsible, and allowing women to get an abortion when they were fucking sluts and got pregnant is just disgusting and makes me hate females.
    • Re: Abortion

      Ok as much as pro-life does work in most cases, consider the first scenario:

      If the baby WAS born it would probably ruin the mother's life. Her teenager years would be ruined, baby would come before studying and she'd be excluded from most social groups. In effect, this girl's life has been ruined. Additionally, it wasn't even her fault it's clearly stated that it wasn't her choice.

      Moving on to the baby. A teenager already has enough stress piled on, the inclusion of a baby adds to this. Eventually there is a high chance the teenager would then neglect the baby because it is too much for a TEENAGER to handle.

      Maybe you are taking away a life before it has even begun, but it's for the better. The baby's life would probably be awful and the same goes for the mother.

      Oh and about adoption, the mother makes a bond with that baby and even though it ruins her life she'll usually keep it. As well as it being quite awful for the baby to know you had been adopted if she went through with it.
      [CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      suck my dick bitch

      I know for a fact that no matter what the circumstances are, as long as there isn't a huge chance that I'll die if I give birth to the child, that I would NEVER get an abortion, because I am such a strong advocate for pro-lifers. Abortion is a subject that I'm extremely passionate about (weird as it sounds LOL) and I do believe that women use it as an easy way out, because they do. Today's society allows us to be so irresponsible, and allowing women to get an abortion when they were fucking sluts and got pregnant is just disgusting and makes me hate females.

      LOL you're using ONE scenario to generalize all abortions.
      It doesn't work that way.


      Also, you're pro-life, but it only extends until your own life is in jeopardy?
      So at what point does one life suddenly become more valuable(or worth saving) than the other?
      June 26 2010<3
    • Re: Abortion

      Shonna wrote:

      LOL you're using ONE scenario to generalize all abortions.
      It doesn't work that way.


      Also, you're pro-life, but it only extends until your own life is in jeopardy?
      So at what point does one life suddenly become more valuable(or worth saving) than the other?


      I'm sure you would agree that it's better to save one life than no life, and even then, the doctor would need to be like 99% sure I could die if I had the baby.
      Also thanks for agreeing that a fetus is a life.
    • Re: Abortion

      Quanta wrote:



      Oh and about adoption, the mother makes a bond with that baby and even though it ruins her life she'll usually keep it. As well as it being quite awful for the baby to know you had been adopted if she went through with it.

      To add to this, speaking as someone who was an adopted child; Adoption is all well and good if you're Caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes with zero medical history and no family history of any physical or mental ailments, but as for everyone else? They stand about a 95%+ chance of growing up in the shitty foster system.

      The adoption rate for african american kids? It's about 2%.
      The adoption rate for any child, even Caucasian with a disability or illness? Even lower.
      I was one of the latter, and I stood a good chance of dying by my first birthday without a life saving open heart surgery. Did that matter? No, because I was just a foster kid and unlikely to get adopted anyway due to the heart issue.

      It wasn't until I was nearly four and somehow miraculously got adopted that I could get that surgery.

      So really, the fact that people think adoption is some save all alternative to abortion is ridiculous. I would have been better off aborted with the chance I stood of actually being adopted and living a full life.

      Just something to consider.
      June 26 2010<3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Shonna ().

    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      I'm sure you would agree that it's better to save one life than no life, and even then, the doctor would need to be like 99% sure I could die if I had the baby.
      Also thanks for agreeing that a fetus is a life.


      So what if that life was awful and affected the mother in the same way.

      In this case you have 2 lives ruined. It's not always worth it.
      [CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      I'm sure you would agree that it's better to save one life than no life, and even then, the doctor would need to be like 99% sure I could die if I had the baby.
      Also thanks for agreeing that a fetus is a life.


      Of course I would agree with that statement, but I'm also pro-choice, not pro-life and condemning people for their differing opinions. It's not at all hypocritical for a pro-choice person to put their life over that of a fetus but it definitely is for a pro-life person to put their life over a fetus' life. No matter what way you look at it, according to pro-life views, a fetus is a human life and abortion is murder.
      So you are essentially(according to your views) committing murder because you don't want to face the repercussions for your mistake.

      Also, yes, I can agree to an extent that a fetus is a life.
      However so are flies,spiders,animals etc.
      We kill them everyday. They are capable of conscious thought and they've already become a conscious being and it's not even questioned which brings us right back around to what makes one life more valuable than another?
      June 26 2010<3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Shonna ().

    • Re: Abortion

      Shonna wrote:

      To add to this, speaking as someone who was an adopted child; Adoption is all well and good if you're Caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes with zero medical history and no family history of any physical or mental ailments, but as for everyone else? They stand about a 95%+ chance of growing up in the shitty foster system.

      The adoption rate for african american kids? It's about 2%.
      The adoption rate for any child, even Caucasian with a disability or illness? Even lower.
      I was one of the latter, and I stood a good chance of dying by my first birthday without a life saving open heart surgery. Did that matter? No, because I was just a foster kid and unlikely to get adopted anyway due to the heart issue.

      It wasn't until I was nearly four and somehow miraculously got adopted that I could get that surgery.

      So really, the fact that people think adoption is some save all alternative to abortion is ridiculous. I would have been better off aborted with the chance I stood of actually being adopted and living a full life.

      Just something to consider.


      So you wish you had been aborted? You'd rather be dead right now?

      Shonna wrote:

      Of course I would agree with that statement, but I'm also pro-choice, not pro-life and condemning people for their differing opinions. It's not at all hypocritical for a pro-choice person to put their life over that of a fetus but it definitely is for a pro-life person to put their life over a fetus' life. No matter what way you look at it, according to pro-life views, a fetus is a human life and abortion is murder.
      So you are essentially(according to your views) committing murder because you don't want to face the repercussions for your mistake.

      Also, yes, I can agree to an extent that a fetus is a life.
      However so are flies,spiders,animals etc.
      We kill them everyday. They are capable of conscious thought and they've already become a conscious being and it's not even questioned which brings us right back around to what makes one life more valuable than another?


      Yes, I do believe it is murder, regardless of the circumstances. What I'm saying is that why should both the mother and baby die when there's a chance that only one of them would?
      I am still very much against a doctor aborting a baby, because he thinks that a mother's life will be at risk if she gives birth to her baby, unless he is like nearly 100% sure. There is no way I could let a doctor kill my fetus unless it becomes apparent that giving birth would only result in the death of the both of us, making it pointless for me to give birth to a baby that we know for sure will not survive if I died in the process.

      That is completely different, you cannot compare us to spiders and other bugs. Killing a human is considered murder, killing a bug is not murder. If those critters' lives were as valuable as ours then someone would make a law prohibiting us to kill them.
    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      So you wish you had been aborted? You'd rather be dead right now?



      Yes, I do believe it is murder, regardless of the circumstances. What I'm saying is that why should both the mother and baby die when there's a chance that only one of them would?
      I am still very much against a doctor aborting a baby, because he thinks that a mother's life will be at risk if she gives birth to her baby, unless he is like nearly 100% sure. There is no way I could let a doctor kill my fetus unless it becomes apparent that giving birth would only result in the death of the both of us, making it pointless for me to give birth to a baby that we know for sure will not survive if I died in the process.

      That is completely different, you cannot compare us to spiders and other bugs. Killing a human is considered murder, killing a bug is not murder. If those critters' lives were as valuable as ours then someone would make a law prohibiting us to kill them.


      Obviously now having lived so far a wonderful life due to what for the majority of people in similar situations would be wildly different circumstances, I am glad I wasn't aborted. However, I can look at it realistically and say, that had my circumstances not have been what they were, and had I ended up like the vast majority of people in the adoption system, yes, abortion would have been a kinder option.

      Kay, all you're doing is chasing your tail around the same bush reiterating what's already been said. You're further proving my point and not your own.

      Essentially, you're still only pro-life until you have to face certain repercussions you find undesirable, which is exactly what you've been condemning pro-choicers for, no? Certainly nobody blames you for not wanting to die just to mollify your pro-life views, it's completely understandable, but the fact remains.Theoretically, that is a possible repercussion for the mistake you made in getting knocked up, and being as it's not all THAT uncommon in the grand scheme of things(approx 1 out of every 100 births result in maternal death. That's approx. 3000/day) it should have been one you considered before sexing it up in the first place, no?

      Believe it or not, the majority of abortions are not performed on girls who have decided just to use it as a form of birth control so they can be "slutty" as you seem to base your hate on that scenario.

      Many are lower income women who (granted, may not have used protection but that's besides the point) would not be able to afford to raise a child, would not have made a fit parent anyway due to lifestyle choices and habits etc.

      Personally, I was using both birth control pills AND condoms when I got pregnant the first time. Both failed unknowingly, and it's not even that uncommon. Even using the morning after pill, you stand about a 15% chance of still getting pregnant even if taken the same day that your regular birth control fails.

      There are just way too many variables for you to just use ONE scenario to generalize all abortions. The day I had mine done, the waiting room was full of mid 30s+ married couples there for the same reason I was.
      They weren't young girls just wanting to slut around without protection.

      The fact is, insects and animals are still a life.
      According to your views, a fetus is a life so...what, a human fetus is more valuable than a living, breathing animal?
      If so, why is it such an abomination for pro-choicers to feel that a living breathing human is more valuable than a fetus?
      June 26 2010<3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Shonna ().

    • Re: Abortion

      Shonna wrote:

      Obviously now having lived so far a wonderful life due to what for the majority of people in similar situations would be wildly different circumstances, I am glad I wasn't aborted. However, I can look at it realistically and say, that had my circumstances not have been what they were, and had I ended up like the vast majority of people in the adoption system, yes, abortion would have been a kinder option.


      Maybe that ends up being the case for some people, but at least they got to experience LIFE, which is such a precious thing. We can't just assume that they will be put through hardships, so we give them the benefit of the doubt. I do not think it's fair for us to rid them of the most basic right there is: life.


      Shonna wrote:

      Kay, all you're doing is chasing your tail around the same bush reiterating what's already been said. You're further proving my point and not your own.

      Essentially, you're still only pro-life until you have to face certain repercussions you find undesirable, which is exactly what you've been condemning pro-choicers for, no? Certainly nobody blames you for not wanting to die just to mollify your pro-life views, it's completely understandable, but the fact remains.Theoretically, that is a possible repercussion for the mistake you made in getting knocked up, and being as it's not all THAT uncommon in the grand scheme of things(approx 1 out of every 100 births result in maternal death. That's approx. 3000/day) it should have been one you considered before sexing it up in the first place, no?


      No, I believe you are unable to read or comprehend what I'm saying.
      I am NOT only pro-life until something "undesirable" happens to me. The only way I would EVERRR get an abortion, and the only time I can understand and justify why anyone would get one, is if there is no chance the baby will survive, and the mother will die giving birth. There is nothing "undesirable" about that situation except for the fact that one or both people are going to die.


      Shonna wrote:


      Believe it or not, the majority of abortions are not performed on girls who have decided just to use it as a form of birth control so they can be "slutty" as you seem to base your hate on that scenario.

      Many are lower income women who (granted, may not have used protection but that's besides the point) would not be able to afford to raise a child, would not have made a fit parent anyway due to lifestyle choices and habits etc.


      Not using birth control is NOT besides the fucking point.
      If these women KNOW that they will not be able to care for a child, then why the heck are they having sex, not to mention without using ANY form of birth control? Obviously the only 100% preventable form of birth control is abstinence, however the fact that these women are aware of the repercussions of having sex makes them extremely irresponsible. They are taking advantage of the system, and end up using abortion as birth control.


      Shonna wrote:

      Personally, I was using both birth control pills AND condoms when I got pregnant the first time. Both failed unknowingly, and it's not even that uncommon. Even using the morning after pill, you stand about a 15% chance of still getting pregnant even if taken the same day that your regular birth control fails.

      There are just way too many variables for you to just use ONE scenario to generalize all abortions. The day I had mine done, the waiting room was full of mid 30s+ married couples there for the same reason I was.
      They weren't young girls just wanting to slut around without protection.


      It's not only young girls who "slut around".
      Everyone knows that having sex can lead to pregnancy and it's their own fault (unless raped) and they should deal with the consequences, they are getting no pity from me.
    • Re: Abortion

      How does this apply to anyone other than the one with the baby? :confused:

      What if I'm 30, but I still want to party so I decide to abort it? If at the right week it won't cause harm to the unborn child and won't be a waiting case of child neglect or abuse. Then again what if I'm 15 and decide I want a baby? I shouldn't be forced to abort because my parents think I'm too young.
    • Re: Abortion

      Since there's more pro-choice than pro-life, I'm going to balance out the debate a little.

      Should it be legal to abort a baby in the first trimester? Should it be legal to abort a baby in the second? The third? What about as the baby is coming out? Why not kill it then? What difference would it make between the moment of conception and the cutting of the umbilical cord? After all, it is still a "parasite" of it's mother.

      Why not kill the child after a few days? The parents don't want it anyway. Why not after two years? After all, can a child of that age effectively reason?

      Where is the line? More than that, what defines what a human being is or is not?

      Way back when, we did not consider slaves human -- they were subhuman. So we worked them to death, beat them, separated their families. We see the fallacy of our ways now, but what of the slaves around the world now?

      The Nazis did not consider the Poles, the Slavs, the Jews, the Romani and the homosexuals to be human -- they were, in fact, subhuman. So they killed them, because they were unwanted and after all it was the choice of the "Mother" state to do so.

      If we're going to go to extremes, let's actually go all the way. Are the babies in the wombs, the unborn, human?

      Again, the line? Where is the line?

      ---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

      Noise wrote:

      How does this apply to anyone other than the one with the baby? :confused:

      What if I'm 30, but I still want to party so I decide to abort it? If at the right week it won't cause harm to the unborn child and won't be a waiting case of child neglect or abuse. Then again what if I'm 15 and decide I want a baby? I shouldn't be forced to abort because my parents think I'm too young.


      The problem with underage mothers is that ultimately they don't often bear the financial, physical, emotional, etc burdens of the baby. The parents do. It's basically like the parents having another child.

      So yes, if abortion were fully legal an impregnated child should have one of two options: Stay with the parents and thereby leave the decision to them (doesn't always have to result in abortion), or get their ass out of the house and deal with it on their own, and thereby make the decision of abortion themselves.

      If it were my choice, I'd legalize abortion. Not because I at all agree with it, and not because I don't think it's a heinous act, but because of the implications of not legalizing it. It just wouldn't work.
      [SIGPIC]http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/sean-connery-id-give-a-fuck-but-i-already-gave-it-to-your-mother-last-night.jpg[/SIGPIC]