Abortion

    • With which statement do you agree? 21
      1.  
        I want it to be illegal for a very poor teenager who was impregnated from being raped by an immediate family member to get an abortion even in the first week of pregnancy even if the doctors can and did detect the baby has severe genetic disorders and tha (1) 5%
      2.  
        I want it to be legal for a wealthy woman who is 5 days past her due date (of birth) to get an abortion even though doctors are sure that the healthy baby would be delivered safely and relatively easily otherwise and even though many safe, healthy, loving (6) 29%
      3.  
        I do not agree fully with either one of the above statements. (14) 67%
      Not as black and white as it once was, is it?
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    • Re: Abortion

      Don't you mean 'legal' for that first statement? Abortion should be legal for those who are endangering themselves or the unborn, all else is just retarded. And your second statement doesn't add up, pretty sure you meant 'illegal.' A wealthy woman wouldn't care about being paid for the child either.
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    • Re: Abortion

      Nevermore wrote:

      Don't you mean 'legal' for that first statement? Abortion should be legal for those who are endangering themselves or the unborn, all else is just retarded. And your second statement doesn't add up, pretty sure you meant 'illegal.' A wealthy woman wouldn't care about being paid for the child either.


      The point is whether you agree with abortion in all of it's forms -- these two choices present two extremes. It says illegal for the first choice because while people might agree that the second choice should be illegal, the first choice should not, and vice versa.

      Abortion can't be circumstantial if you want to realistically consider having it be legal or illegal. You can't say one of these should be illegal and so should the other -- it doesn't work like that. It's about what you truly believe about abortion.

      I included the third option just for people who couldn't decide. I wasn't asking everyone's opinion on whether abortion should be legal, else I could have put the choices "Yes" or "No". If you say yes to abortion, do you also agree with the second statement? If you say no to abortion, do you also agree with the first? THAT was the point I was trying to make.

      Edit: You clearly the missed the point of the second statement then. Should be able to get an abortion of a healthy baby 5 days passed her due date for birth -- so anytime, the baby could be born? Even though she could easily give up the baby for adoption? Even though she could even make a profit at that? If that's the part you are focusing on, then you clearly have no reason to be a part of this discussion.



      Lol, I got a neg rep for posting this thread. Says "that's dumb". Clearly someone doesn't understand the point. Too complicated. Best go back to masturbating in the Sexuality forum.
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      The post was edited 3 times, last by Leonodas ().

    • Re: Abortion

      Leonodas wrote:

      Bullshit


      Your logic is retarded. That's the same thing as saying, for example in another topic, plastic surgery is either all good or all bad. In an extreme case, if someone had their face burned off and needed reconstructive surgery then it's not okay, amirite? Or how about those religions strict on not allowing certain medications etc, but if it could save your life or someone else's dear to you, wouldn't you take it? There's plenty of examples similar to your abortion question an there's not just one correct answer. There will always be terms and conditions.

      Your second statement makes no sense at all. As for the financial side of it, that was another additional retarded point you made. Just saying!
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    • Re: Abortion

      Nevermore wrote:

      Ignorance


      Sorry you don't understand, then.

      It's a question for the people who claim to be completely pro-life or pro-choice, so they can consider the full extreme of what they believe.

      The point is not to ask people to be divisive, it's to prove that no one is likely 100% pro-life or choice, and that we all have an opinion somewhere in the middle. Most people say that they either agree with abortion or do not.

      The point of the second statement, that bit that you keep focusing on, is that the baby really doesn't have to be aborted -- it's emphasizing that she could just have the baby, but if you're completely pro-choice you might claim "Mother's rights". It's not a retarded point, just an extraneous one if you keep insisting on it.

      Tl;dr Abortion is not as diametrically divisive as once thought.
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    • Re: Abortion

      am I like the only one who understood what he was trying to do here omg

      I consider myself extremely pro-life; the only time I can slightly justify a woman getting an abortion is if the doctor is like 99% sure she will die or be seriously injured if she did give birth to her baby.
      The chance of the child being born with a birth defect is absolutely not reason enough for a mother to murder her baby. There are hundreds of different birth defects a child could be born with, some that are not that big of a deal, to those that can be excruciating and awful to live with. The doctor may not be able to detect exactly what birth defect the child will be born with; if the child ends up being albino, or born with an extra arm or something, do you really think they would rather not be alive at all? There are surgeries available to fix birth defects (not all of them of course) but that just isn't a good enough excuse to commit murder in my opinion.
    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      This is probably the most annoying thing to read in an abortion discussion thread, because you're acting as if the fetus does not have a body, and if you agree that he/she DOES, then you're being a hypocrite.


      Well, I at least appreciate you calling it a fetus and not a baby.
      The fetus half of the time DOESN'T have a body. It's a clump of cells for a lot of the time with no ability to think, remember, feel pain, make decisions, etc. It's STILL PART OF THE WOMAN, and not on its own yet. So therefore, it is the woman's body, her decision to make, gtfo.
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    • Re: Abortion

      Kyle. wrote:

      Well, I at least appreciate you calling it a fetus and not a baby.
      The fetus half of the time DOESN'T have a body. It's a clump of cells for a lot of the time with no ability to think, remember, feel pain, make decisions, etc. It's STILL PART OF THE WOMAN, and not on its own yet. So therefore, it is the woman's body, her decision to make, gtfo.


      So what exactly constitutes a body? Having 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 feet, 2 hands, a stomach etc?
      Yes, he or she is part of the woman's body, however people do get abortions at the point when the baby COULD live on its own.
      The record for the earliest premature baby to be born and survive is 21 weeks, and 5 days. 12% of women get an abortion AFTER their first trimester, and while that doesn't seem like much in comparison to the 88% who get them before the end of their first trimester, 50 million abortions are performed per year, which means that 6 million abortions occur after the first trimester, when the baby could (based on the world record) live without his or her mother.


      Tvman147 wrote:

      They don't. As you just said they are a fetus. They aren't fully humans yet. Just a a mass of cells.


      You CANNOT say that a fetus just a mass of cells. This fetus was formed from the sperm and ovum of his or her parents, which formed an entirely new, self-directing living organism with its own individual DNA distinct from both mother and father. This fetus will only have one chance to live a life like the rest of us, and to take that right away from him/her is just cruel and thoughtless.
    • Re: Abortion

      just a thought... the more words you put into a poll choice, the more likely people are to pick "neither" as you start to get into loaded answer.

      if this is you ranting... then just rant! if you actually want some kind of functional poll.. maybe 4-5 choices that are a little less loaded?
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    • Re: Abortion

      SammyD wrote:

      just a thought... the more words you put into a poll choice, the more likely people are to pick "neither" as you start to get into loaded answer.

      if this is you ranting... then just rant! if you actually want some kind of functional poll.. maybe 4-5 choices that are a little less loaded?



      I'm not ranting, what the hell? Didn't you read the purpose?

      If you and others aren't actually reading the questions then gtfo please, which is what it sounds like. Yes the questions are loaded, they're both meant to be extremes of the pro-life and pro-choice arguments. They are the farthest you can go if you were to put your opinion of abortion on a linear scale.

      It was meant to make people think, not necessarily agree. Haven't you been reading? Fuck it, I may as well copy/paste what I said to Nevermore:

      "It's a question for the people who claim to be completely pro-life or pro-choice, so they can consider the full extreme of what they believe.

      The point is not to ask people to be divisive, it's to prove that no one is likely 100% pro-life or choice, and that we all have an opinion somewhere in the middle. Most people say that they either agree with abortion or do not.

      The point of the second statement, that bit that you keep focusing on, is that the baby really doesn't have to be aborted -- it's emphasizing that she could just have the baby, but if you're completely pro-choice you might claim "Mother's rights". It's not a retarded point, just an extraneous one if you keep insisting on it.

      Tl;dr Abortion is not as diametrically divisive as once thought."
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    • Re: Abortion

      I agree with the second choice entirely.
      Even at 5 days past due, the fetus is IN her and living off HER body.
      She should have the right to do with it what she wants, regardless of wealth until it is born, even if it is ABLE to live outside of her at the time.

      Until the fetus is separate from the woman, whether that be at 15 weeks gestation or 45 weeks gestation, the woman should have the choice of aborting.

      Also, keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is happily 39 weeks pregnant so it's not like I'm biased in any way on the matter.
      June 26 2010<3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Shonna ().

    • Re: Abortion

      Pink_ wrote:

      So what exactly constitutes a body? Having 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 feet, 2 hands, a stomach etc?
      Yes, he or she is part of the woman's body, however people do get abortions at the point when the baby COULD live on its own.
      The record for the earliest premature baby to be born and survive is 21 weeks, and 5 days. 12% of women get an abortion AFTER their first trimester, and while that doesn't seem like much in comparison to the 88% who get them before the end of their first trimester, 50 million abortions are performed per year, which means that 6 million abortions occur after the first trimester, when the baby could (based on the world record) live without his or her mother.




      You CANNOT say that a fetus just a mass of cells. This fetus was formed from the sperm and ovum of his or her parents, which formed an entirely new, self-directing living organism with its own individual DNA distinct from both mother and father. This fetus will only have one chance to live a life like the rest of us, and to take that right away from him/her is just cruel and thoughtless.


      tl;dr
      i am the sooooon
      and the heeeeiir
    • Re: Abortion

      Shonna wrote:

      I agree with the second choice entirely.
      Even at 5 days past due, the fetus is IN her and living off HER body.
      She should have the right to do with it what she wants, regardless of wealth until it is born, even if it is ABLE to live outside of her at the time.

      Until the fetus is separate from the woman, whether that be at 15 weeks gestation or 45 weeks gestation, the woman should have the choice of aborting.

      Also, keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is happily 39 weeks pregnant so it's not like I'm biased in any way on the matter.



      Thank you for at least answering honestly and understanding.

      Personally, I don't know what to think because while I have my own personal convictions against abortion, I also believe in personal choice. Of course we come down to the moral dilemma of how we define a "baby".

      I want to know where we draw the line with abortion. At birth? Later? In your opinion, it appears to be before birth, but would you support after-birth abortions? At what age would it be wrong to abort?

      Just curious. Thank you for actually carrying the discussion instead of wasting everyone's time. :)

      ---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------

      summerlove wrote:

      I think abortions should only be legal in extreme cases like rape, incest, serious health problems, etc. Otherwise it's just downright wrong and selfish.


      And I agree, even on a moral level. But the only problem is that you'll probably get a flood of women who claim rape, incest, etc -- I'd hardly put it beneath people today to lie about something like that.

      So how do you determine if they are telling the truth? Who makes that distinction? Too much red tape, but that's just my opinion.

      For me, abortion is one extreme or the other (aside from if it is determined that the mother is at risk) because if you make an argument for one part, you can't really have it differently another way. You either permit it or you don't. Trying to meet in the middle is seriously impossible, which is unfortunate because efficient lie/rape detectors would probably solve the problem. No, these things do not and probably won't exist for some time.
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