ummm a REALLY hard subject.

    • Yeaa...I posted this last nite but really late. and im to lazy to go find it,:)
      Well yea ill just get down to it.
      Im bi. have been ever since i can remember.
      I absolutely adore this girl and she like me to.
      but were not going out
      becaues...
      im also christian. and i love going to church.
      (please dont call me a hypocrite.)
      Im really confused.
      Before i started going to church like 4 or 5 months ago.
      I really HATED people who didnt like gays.lesbians.or bi people.
      UGH! I dont like being called a sin but i really dont know how to "un bi" myself.
      people talk to me about this like it can be "cured"
      i mean its not a disorder or something.
      Yea...Help? or advice.(same thing ha.):confused::rolleyes:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Tsunkatse ().

    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      Umm. You are who u are. It is said to be a sin in Christianity, but there is A LOT more involved than I even care to explain. It's not that simple. Plus, there are about 23948239048923 more sins that everyone commits everyday, so wtf are people so focused on this one for, when they go out lying and treating people like trash all day everyday. Whether it's a sin or not can't change you. Don't stress over it, it really all about how you interpret it. Don't let other dumbasses influence you.

      I suggest u watch the Lifetime movie "Prayers for Bobby". You should be able to torrent it or something if you can't catch it on TV. It addresses these issues and what they say is real (well not the prejudice remarks by the mother).
    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      Xjitterz wrote:

      Um let see. Im just going to get down to it.
      Im bi...Have been ever since i remember.
      but...i love serving...Jesus.
      Christian.
      they say its a sin.
      um...Yea...I need help or advice or just someone to talk to.:confused:

      No, see, your mislead.

      This is another misconception about lust and sexual orientation.

      Lust is a sin.

      Not, "non-heterosexual lust."

      That is, homosexual lust is just as much of a sin as heterosexual lust.

      Bisexual lust is just as much of a sin as heterosexual lust.

      A man having lust for a woman is just as equally of a sin as a man having lust on a man. It isn't a 'greater' sin.
      Nice guys talk because they have something to say; pick-up artists talk because they have to say something.
    • oh dang i just found this thread. :P
      sorry people.

      silence086 wrote:

      Umm. You are who u are. It is said to be a sin in Christianity, but there is A LOT more involved than I even care to explain. It's not that simple. Plus, there are about 23948239048923 more sins that everyone commits everyday, so wtf are people so focused on this one for, when they go out lying and treating people like trash all day everyday. Whether it's a sin or not can't change you. Don't stress over it, it really all about how you interpret it. Don't let other dumbasses influence you.

      I suggest u watch the Lifetime movie "Prayers for Bobby". You should be able to torrent it or something if you can't catch it on TV. It addresses these issues and what they say is real (well not the prejudice remarks by the mother).



      awww thank you! but it kinda hard being this way wen SO MANY people expect alot from me. I have that movie on my DVR:D
      it makes me cry everytime. i just watched it and hour ago.

      Faucet wrote:

      It's hard to be so hypocritical, then ask people not to call you a hypocrite, and ask them to give a solution to your problem caused by your hypocrisy.

      Edit: btw choose the girl obviously
      well okay. but i really dont mean to be a hypocrite. I just really need advice.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tsunkatse ().

    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      Owen wrote:

      You're right, being bisexual is not a disorder. It's not something you can simply go to rehab for and suddenly be cured. It is a part of who you are. I really think you need to accept it and embrace it. You can get the best of both worlds without having to choose one or the other.


      Thank you <b>extremely</b>.
      it just really hard. To be expected in the church.
      I mean if they really do "love " me the way they say they do.
      They'd expect me for the way i am. right?
      not try to forcing me to change.
      uh wow(:
      thank you again.:)
      to legit to quick(:
    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      I don't really know much about religion but I'm thinking that the only one that can judge you is God Himself. There are going to be some people that won't be able to accept you. If this happens, keep your head high and know that God loves you. It may be hard at first, but it will get easier. It also depends on what denomination you are. Some denominations are more accepting than others. Just remember, there is nothing wrong with you :)
      I hope this helped.
    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      Xjitterz wrote:

      Yeaa...I posted this last nite but really late. and im to lazy to go find it,:)
      Well yea ill just get down to it.
      Im bi. have been ever since i can remember.
      I absolutely adore this girl and she like me to.
      but were not going out
      becaues...
      im also christian. and i love going to church.
      (please dont call me a hypocrite.)
      Im really confused.
      Before i started going to church like 4 or 5 months ago.
      I really HATED people who didnt like gays.lesbians.or bi people.
      UGH! I dont like being called a sin but i really dont know how to "un bi" myself.
      people talk to me about this like it can be "cured"
      i mean its not a disorder or something.
      Yea...Help? or advice.(same thing ha.):confused::rolleyes:

      The only reason having homosexual sex is a sin is because you can't procreate. Honestly, it is as big of a sin as sex with a condom.

      P.S. This is from a christian view. I am neither christian or straight.
      [CENTER][FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"]Seduce&Destroy[/SIZE]
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      You're sure you still wanna play this evil lil game?
      [/COLOR][/FONT][/CENTER]
    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.

      One sec... Lemme go into jesus mode... I'll edit my post with some verses or w/e.


      Question: "Does the Bible instruct us to forgive and forget?"

      Answer:
      The phrase "forgive and forget" is not found in the Bible. However, there are numerous scriptures commanding us to “forgive one another” (Matthew 6:14; Ephesians 4:32). A Christian who does not forgive can reap bitterness and the loss of eternal rewards (Hebrews 12:14-15; 2 John 1:8). Forgiveness is a decision of the will. Since God commands us to forgive, we must make a conscious choice to forgive. This frees the forgiving one from the past. The offender may not desire forgiveness and may not change (Matthew 5:44). Ideally, the offender will seek reconciliation, but if not, the one wronged should still make known his decision to forgive.

      In one sense, it is impossible to truly forget sins that have been committed against us. We cannot selectively "delete" events from our memory. The Bible states that God does not "remember" our wickedness (Hebrews 8:12). God is all-knowing. God knows that we have “sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). However, having forgiven us, He treats us as if the sin had not occurred. If we belong to Him through faith in Christ, God does not hold our sins against us. In that sense we must "forgive and forget." If we forgive someone, we must act as if that sin had never occurred. We remember the sin, but we live as if we did not remember it. Ephesians 4:32 tells us, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."
      The point of that is if god instructs of to forgive and forget, than he (the way the bible makes it seem) will forgive and forget also. Reasoning for that is: (Gosh this is a long one but just scan through it for certain things.)


      The Forgiveness of Sins



      All pardon for sins ultimately comes from Christ’s finished work on Calvary, but how is this pardon received by individuals? Did Christ leave us any means within the Church to take away sin? The Bible says he gave us two means.

      Baptism was given to take away the sin inherited from Adam (original sin) and any sins we personally committed before baptism—sins we personally commit are called actual sins, because they come from our own acts. Thus on the day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowds, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38), and when Paul was baptized he was told, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). And so Peter later wrote, "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21).

      For sins committed after baptism, a different sacrament is needed. It has been called penance, confession, and reconciliation, each word emphasizing one of its.aspects. During his life, Christ forgave sins, as in the case of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1–11) and the woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:48). He exercised this power in his human capacity as the Messiah or Son of man, telling us, "the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Matt. 9:6), which is why the Gospel writer himself explains that God "had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8).

      Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.

      God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23). (This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)

      The Commission


      Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).

      This power was understood as coming from God: "All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18). Indeed, confirms Paul, "So we are ambassadors for Christ" (2 Cor. 5:20).

      Some say that any power given to the apostles died with them. Not so. Some powers must have, such as the ability to write Scripture. But the powers necessary to maintain the Church as a living, spiritual society had to be passed down from generation to generation. If they ceased, the Church would cease, except as a quaint abstraction. Christ ordered the apostles to, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." It would take much time. And he promised them assistance: "Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matt. 28:19–20).

      If the disciples believed that Christ instituted the power to sacramentally forgive sins in his stead, we would expect the apostles’ successors—the bishops—and Christians of later years to act as though such power was legitimately and habitually exercised. If, on the other hand, the sacramental forgiveness of sins was what Fundamentalists term it, an "invention," and if it was something foisted upon the young Church by ecclesiastical or political leaders, we’d expect to find records of protest. In fact, in early Christian writings we find no sign of protests concerning sacramental forgiveness of sins. Quite the contrary. We find confessing to a priest was accepted as part of the original deposit of faith handed down from the apostles.

      Lots of Gumption


      Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, claims "auricular confession to a priest instead of to God" was instituted in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council. This is an extreme example, even for a committed anti-Catholic. Few people have the gumption to place the "invention" of confession so late, since there is so much early Christian writing—a good portion of it one thousand or more years before that council—that refers to the practice of confession as something already long-established.

      Actually, the Fourth Lateran Council did discuss confession. To combat the lax morals of the time, the council regulated the already-existing duty to confess one’s sins by saying that Catholics should confess any mortal sins at least once a year. To issue an official decree about how frequently a sacrament must be celebrated is hardly the same as "inventing" that sacrament.

      The earliest Christian writings, such as the first-century Didache, are indefinite on the procedure for confession to be used in the forgiveness of sins, but a verbal confession is listed as part of the Church’s requirement by the time of Irenaeus (A.D. 180). He wrote that the disciples of the Gnostic heretic Marcus "have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing themselves from the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22).

      The sacrament of penance is clearly in use, for Irenaeus speaks of making an outward confession (versus remaining silent) upon which the hope of eternal life hangs, but it is not yet clear from Irenaeus just how, or to whom, confession is to be made. Is it privately, to the priest, or before the whole congregation, with the priest presiding? The one thing we can say for sure is that the sacrament is understood by Irenaeus as having originated in the infant Church.

      Later writers, such as Origen (241), Cyprian (251), and Aphraates (337), are clear in saying confession is to be made to a priest. (In their writings the whole process of penance is termed exomologesis, which means confession—the confession was seen as the main part of the sacrament.) Cyprian writes that the forgiveness of sins can take place only "through the priests." Ambrose says "this right is given to priests only." Pope Leo I says absolution can be obtained only through the prayers of the priests. These utterances are not taken as novel, but as reminders of accepted belief. We have no record of anyone objecting, of anyone claiming these men were pushing an "invention." (See the Catholic Answers tract Confession for full quotes from the early Church Fathers on the sacrament of penance.)

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Ken_ ().

    • Re: ummm a REALLY hard subject.


      Confession Implied


      Note that the power Christ gave the apostles was twofold: to forgive sins or to hold them bound, which means to retain them unforgiven. Several things follow from this. First, the apostles could not know what sins to forgive and what not to forgive unless they were first told the sins by the sinner. This implies confession. Second, their authority was not merely to proclaim that God had already forgiven sins or that he would forgive sins if there were proper repentance.

      Such interpretations don’t account for the distinction between forgiving and retaining—nor do they account for the importance given to the utterance in John 20:21–23. If God has already forgiven all of a man’s sins, or will forgive them all (past and future) upon a single act of repentance, then it makes little sense to tell the apostles they have been given the power to "retain" sins, since forgiveness would be all-or-nothing and nothing could be "retained."

      Furthermore, if at conversion we were forgiven all sins, past, present, and future, it would make no sense for Christ to require us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors," which he explained is required because "if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matt. 6:12–15).

      If forgiveness really can be partial—not a once-for-all thing—how is one to tell which sins have been forgiven, which not, in the absence of a priestly decision? You can’t very well rely on your own gut feelings. No, the biblical passages make sense only if the apostles and their successors were given a real authority.

      Still, some people are not convinced. One is Paul Juris, a former priest, now a Fundamentalist, who has written a pamphlet on this subject. The pamphlet is widely distributed by organizations opposed to Catholicism. The cover describes the work as "a study of John 20:23, a much misunderstood and misused portion of Scripture pertaining to the forgiveness of sins." Juris mentions "two main schools of thought," the Catholic and the Fundamentalist positions.

      He correctly notes that "among Christians, it is generally agreed that regular confession of one’s sins is obviously necessary to remain in good relationship with God. So the issue is not whether we should or should not confess our sins. Rather, the real issue is, How does God say that our sins are forgiven or retained?"

      Verse Slinging


      This sounds fine, on the surface, but this apparently reasonable approach masks what really happens next. Juris engages in verse slinging, listing as many verses as he can find that refer to God forgiving sins, in hopes that the sheer mass of verses will settle the question. But none of the verses he lists specifically interprets John 20:23, and none contradicts the Catholic interpretation.

      For instance, he cites verses like these: "Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:38–39); "And he said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned’" (Mark 16:15–16).

      Juris says that verses like these demonstrate that "all that was left for the disciples to do was to ‘go’ and ‘proclaim’ this wonderful good news (the gospel) to all men. As they proclaimed this good news of the gospel, those who believed the gospel, their sins would be forgiven. Those who rejected (did not believe) the gospel, their sins would be retained." Juris does nothing more than show that the Bible says God will forgive sins and that it is through Jesus that our sins are forgiven—things no one doubts. He does not remotely prove that John 20:23 is equivalent to a command to "go" and to "preach," merely that going and preaching are part of God’s plan for saving people. He also sidesteps the evident problems in the Fundamentalist interpretation.

      The passage says nothing about preaching the good news. Instead, Jesus is telling the apostles that they have been empowered to do something. He does not say, "When God forgives men’s sins, they are forgiven." He uses the second person plural: "you." And he talks about the apostles forgiving, not preaching. When he refers to retaining sins, he uses the same form: "When you hold them bound, they are held bound."

      The best Juris can do is assert that John 20:23 means the apostles were given authority only to proclaim the forgiveness of sins—but asserting this is not proving it.

      His is a technique that often works because many readers believe that the Fundamentalist interpretation has been proven true. After all, if you propose to interpret one verse and accomplish that by listing irrelevant verses that refer to something other than the specific point in controversy, lazy readers will conclude that you have marshalled an impressive array of evidence. All they have to do is count the citations. Here’s one for the Catholics, they say, looking at John 20:21–23, but ten or twenty for the Fundamentalists. The Fundamentalists must be right!

      The Advantages


      Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes. First, he seeks forgiveness the way Christ intended. Second, by confessing to a priest, the Catholic learns a lesson in humility, which is avoided when one confesses only through private prayer. Third, the Catholic receives sacramental graces the non-Catholic doesn’t get; through the sacrament of penance sins are forgiven and graces are obtained. Fourth, the Catholic is assured that his sins are forgiven; he does not have to rely on a subjective "feeling." Lastly, the Catholic can also obtain sound advice on avoiding sin in the future.

      During his lifetime Christ sent out his followers to do his work. Just before he left this world, he gave the apostles special authority, commissioning them to make God’s forgiveness present to all people, and the whole Christian world accepted this, until just a few centuries ago. If there is an "invention" here, it is not the sacrament of penance, but the notion that the sacramental forgiveness of sins is not to be found in the Bible or in early Christian history.


      So, the point of all this is, if Jesus/God will forgive us for our sins if we confess, than there is no problem with being Gay/Bi, therefore, you have no reason what so ever to worry. I hope this helped you at least :)