Okay. First off, i dont play nice while debating. BUT, i will restrain myself here and now.
The word should NOT be removed!! Think. Why was the country formed?? The country was formed because some people in England were sick of the RELIGIOUS constraints imposed by the English government. The country was formed around freedom; at the time, RELIGIOUS freedom was at the top of their list.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
No where in there do i see any specification to which god, therefore the should be no offence to more than 99% of the country(non-atheists)...... So your telling me, that you want to alter one of the most common beliefs (for lack of a better broad description), because one word MAY offend LESS than 1% of the country?

No.

Under God wasn't even added until relatively recently, and it isn't an inherent Christian belief to have "God" on the bill or in the pledge. I don't understand your point on "religious freedom". What does that have to do with the pledge? "They wanted religious freedom... so they could impose their own beliefs"...?

Scorpio_ wrote:

Yeah, that's my bad to the dating of the addition. This has nothing to do with Christians. It's about religion itself. Religious freedom has everything to do with the pledge. Certain people do not believe in a god. The pledge states we should, pledge to the flag (the country), under god (god's guidance). Some people do .. not .. believe .. in a god.

I know there are people who don't believe in God. My "religious freedom" question was directed to the poster above me.

I'm not American so I can't comment on that, but Canada went through a similar ordeal when we decided we might want to change our national anthem.

"in all thy sons command"
"God keep our land, glorious and free"
People have issues with both these lines. But I'm a female and I don't find the first one offense.

People are just way too sensitive. I think the unfortunate thing is that no matter how "fair" it is, you're never going to make everyone happy.

TPM wrote:

Think. Why was the country formed?? The country was formed because some people in England were sick of the RELIGIOUS constraints imposed by the English government.

There were far more reasons as to why the American Revolution occurred than religious toleration. The phrase "no taxation without representation" has more to do with the U.S. formation than religious freedom.

People fled to North America, and later the U.S., due to the religious freedom that was offered; the U.S. was not formed because of religious constraints.

The atheist/agnostic population in the U.S., while well within the minority, is quite a bit larger than 1%.

Well since back when the country was started every one believed in god, so taking it out is like taking a piece away from the history of the first americans.

So how can you be Atheist and a Mod since you have no concept of morality?

Aleksandr wrote:

So how can you be Atheist and a Mod since you have no concept of morality?

Aleksandr wrote:

So how can you be Atheist and a Mod since you have no concept of morality?

morals have nothing to do with his belief system, you dont need to believe in a god to have basic human levels of morality, in fact we are pretty much taught from a young age the acceptable and non acceptable views of morality, like stealing and murder would not be acceptable.
from wikipedia:
"In its "descriptive" sense, morality refers to personal or cultural values, codes of conduct or social mores that distinguish between right and wrong in the human society. Describing morality in this way is not making a claim about what is objectively right or wrong, but only referring to what is considered right or wrong by people. For the most part right and wrong acts are classified as such because they are thought to cause benefit or harm, but it is possible that many moral beliefs are based on prejudice, ignorance or even hatred"
this shows that every person will have their own set of morals according to themselves, nothing to do with him being an atheist, and as DIG said morals are man made idea. and another thing, every country would have their own set or morals, soo being a mod and an atheist has nothing to do with the mans morals, by you saying that all atheist or other belief systems have little or no morals is quite ignorant of you sir.

as for the national anthem, im not american soo i cant really comment but im pretty sure that the founding fathers of the U.S were all of religious following soo i can imagine they would want that in the anthem (i could be wrong there, its been a number of years since i studied american history). and its not even at any specific religion, god is a very loose term that can be put to any belief system. and as DIG said i think there are more pressing world matter to be dealing with apart from a word in a song. its not hurting anyone soo why remove it, i doubt atheist care that much.

I'm not sure that it matters to have God on your money.

As for the Pledge of Allegiance, I suppose it does offer a possible problem if you want such statements to be sincere, but again, like DIG said, if you don't believe in God, I don't see the point in caring.

That said, there isn't really any justification for TPM's advocacy of keeping religious references in government just because some blokes in wigs said so two hundred years ago. Keeping government broadly secular, according religion only a controlled advisory capacity, is the best way.

There is no problem with an atheist expressing their views, there is a problem however when a person who doesn't quite know what they do or do not believe goes out and says they're an atheist just because they want to be a contrarian.
btw, i didn't say that religious freedom was the only reason that some Europeans came to the Americas, i said it was a major reason. In 17th and 18th century England, people were being killed by the government for not practicing the religion the government told them to practice; and so some people decided to, instead of secretly practicing their religion in their homes', flee to the Americas. I believe a conclusion can then be drawn that, since people fled to the Americas in search of a place where they could practice their religion openly, the United States of America was formed, in part, on the ideal of religious freedom. Therefore, the people of the united states have the right to be "..indivisible, under GOD.." Whether 1%, or 10%, or even 20% of the country does not believe in god, a vast majority of the country does. Regardless of what religion specifically, the majority of the population of the US does believe in god.

I'm going to say it again because some of those for it seem to have no idea of this,

GOD WAS NOT PUT INTO THE PLEDGE UNTIL 1954.

Edit: The point being, there is not really "history" behind it. Stop claiming such.

Scorpio_ wrote:

A majority of people once believed that slavery was ok. The majority isn't always right. A majority of people in the US believes that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior. Does that mean everyone should be Catholic because the majority is?

a great point i give you that. but im pretty sure that there is a huge difference between believing in god and slavery. slavery was abolished because it was dehumanizing and cruel to the most abhorrent sense of the word. and here, you are saying that god should follow in the path of slavery? not your exact wording but, you said that slavery was once believed by a majority to be ok.. -> then u said that the majority wasnt right.. -> then u suggest that that god doesn't exist. nowadays, it is almost universally believed that slavery is wretched and repulsive.. let me ask you, are you a satanist?

TPM wrote:

a great point i give you that. but im pretty sure that there is a huge difference between believing in god and slavery. slavery was abolished because it was dehumanizing and cruel to the most abhorrent sense of the word. and here, you are saying that god should follow in the path of slavery? not your exact wording but, you said that slavery was once believed by a majority to be ok.. -> then u said that the majority wasnt right.. -> then u suggest that that god doesn't exist. nowadays, it is almost universally believed that slavery is wretched and repulsive.. let me ask you, are you a satanist?

That has absolutely nothing to do with what he said. He was pointing out your bandwagon fallacy.

I'm curious as to where the satanism comes in, haha.

I think we are getting confused between why the colonists came to the Americas and why the United States were formed. The former was namely because of religious freedom, where as the latter was to be free of a tyranical government (remeber "no taxation without representation"?). So saying the United States of America was founded on religion is, well for lack of a better term, wrong. The idea that the United States is a Christian nation came later on, none of the founding fathers thought of the new nation as Christian or Jewish or Muslim.

Anyways I don't see why it matters if the word "God" is on money or in the pledge of allegence. I would say that since Chiristanity is the predominent relgion in modern American society the word "God" puts the masses at ease. If you can say that America is a "nation under God" or say "In God we Trust" it makes the masses feel better about their current situations. Times may be bad but at least we have "God" to look towards...

So I would say since the word "God" is not harming anyone why waste the time and money in order to make new "Godless" money. It is not economical.