Am I a twisted asshole?

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      Ok, I'd forgotten about this thread, but was looking through my unread posts out of boredom and saw it again, so thought I'd read through responses. I think Morgan's post pretty much summed up what I was tryint to say on the day:

      Scaredycrow wrote:

      I understand what you're trying to say, I'm just not sure why an animal would have to die what you feel is a "good" death, when it doesn't care at all how "good" it's death is. Why your feelings over theirs?

      Just because pain is a constant doesn't mean we should intentionally cause it, it's supposed to be there there as a mechanism to tell us that something is harmful and that we should avoid it. Just because some people find it meaningful to try and overcome or fight through pain doesn't mean animals do. They'll generally avoid it at all costs.

      I'm also wondering how this would work if a majority of people agreed with it and the system actually came into place. You couldn't just walk out into a field with a 20-lb sledgehammer and kill a cow (or likely any animal for that matter) - we'd still have to breed them, line them up so they can't escape, and kill them. Unless I really am misunderstanding what you're thinking of!



      The point being that it doesn't matter whether you care about the pain or not, all the animal wants to do is live. No matter what way you kill it, it's going to die. So why not just get it over with with the machines they use already as opposed to dragging it out and trying to beat them to death with blunt force? All that does is cause the animal additional pain and suffering before their death that is completely unnecessary.
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      Aannddyy on msn wrote:

      hye, i jstu red ur post in the dibates and diskushon bord lol
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      DamnImGood;1062835947 wrote:

      I'm definitely an idiot.



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    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      I hate vegetarians.

      What does a cow do? It farts. What does that fart do? It releases gases that are bad in excess for the atmosphere.

      What do plants do? They take those gases and turn it into perfectly good breathable oxygen. So dammit, Vegetarians are to blame for global warming.

      On topic: a bullet in the head is the least painfull way to go. I don't think the cow has the capacity to care about honor.
      [CENTER]To the dumb question, 'Why me?' the cosmos barely bothers to return the reply, 'Why not?[/CENTER]
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    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      ~+ Bear +~ wrote:

      I hate vegetarians.

      What does a cow do? It farts. What does that fart do? It releases gases that are bad in excess for the atmosphere.

      What do plants do? They take those gases and turn it into perfectly good breathable oxygen. So dammit, Vegetarians are to blame for global warming.

      On topic: a bullet in the head is the least painfull way to go. I don't think the cow has the capacity to care about honor.


      As opposed to all the toxic and harmful chemicals and gases that humans release into the atmosphere?
      I hope this paragraph was a joke because this is the most ridiculous and pathetic thing I have ever read :s.
      Like I can't believe you wrote that :o.


      Anyway.. Dusk.. I disagree with you completely. If humans are going to kill animals for food in such a vile place then I think it should be made less painful for them and quicker. Would you really wanna be smashed in the head with a hammer like that until you are killed?
      That would just be so much more messy than the way they kill animals now. I don't attack anyone for eating meat but I think it's cruel to make their death any longer than it should be.
      People used to earn their food and kill animals yes but I think human life has evolved since then.
      But I put 4 anyway because I like you :).
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    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      OnEMesSduPKiD wrote:

      Hunting is natural, as is eating other animals through hunting. Enslaving animals only to be bred and plumped up to be mass slaughtered is no where close to being natural, therefore it is not right.

      Are guns natural? Are paved roads natural? Are skyscrapers natural? Are square plots of land with perfect rows of vegetables natural?

      I wouldn't say any of them are (going by your logic), but most of those things are considered "right". How do we define what's natural and what isn't? And where do we draw the line between which "unnatural" things are wrong, and which are right?

      ~+ Bear +~ wrote:

      I hate vegetarians.

      What does a cow do? It farts. What does that fart do? It releases gases that are bad in excess for the atmosphere.

      What do plants do? They take those gases and turn it into perfectly good breathable oxygen. So dammit, Vegetarians are to blame for global warming.

      Why do cows exist?

      This kind of ties in with the natural argument too, because cattle as we know them today aren't a "natural" animal in the first place. If we didn't eat them, they wouldn't be here.

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      Why would you purposely want to put an animal in more pain than it already has to go through? I mean it already has to die for Christ's sake! Is that how you want to die, by someone hammering your head in?
      [SIZE=4]When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Then throw it in the face of whoever gave you the lemons until they give you the oranges you originally asked for :)[/SIZE]

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      My thoughts were never toward the feelings of the animal, I will never know whether they have the capacity for honor or meaning or anything besides hanging out and eating grass really. My point is that I know that I do have the capacity for moral judgement, honor and dishonor, and the methods I would use to kill, assuming I had to (or it was my job and I chose to, of course) would have more humanity to them.

      To me It's like people who say things like "I wish so and so would die!", but when presented with the thought of following someone and slitting their throat ear to ear, they get disgusted and ask me why I'm sick in the head when in actual reality if they could wish for someone to die and get that wish granted, they would be committing just as evil and act as the person who goes and earns it, taking a life, except they don't get dirty, they don't get blood on their hands,they don't earn it.

      I would treat a cow the same way, whether it hurts them or not, whether I kill them and feel it or not, It's fucked up, which is why I care about the topic at all in the first place, personally having seen both methods in person, I'm against the whole thing, but I know the market and consumption of meat and other animal products isn't just going away any time soon.

      To finish this out:
      Pain is natural
      Hunting/ eating other species is natural, or has been around for a very long time anyways
      Air guns aren't natural, and hammers/axes aren't either, but seeing as how we don't have the natural appendages necessary for the execution of an animal- I would go with axes and hammers if i had to pick.

      Again, when used properly, a sledgehammer can kill painlessly, and the stun/slit throat method is just as messy, it's also worth mentioning that a jammed air gun causes extreme pain to the animal, and it takes much more time to fix the gun than the couple seconds max it takes to reach back and take another swing with a heavy axe/hammer, so in many cases, even though it wasn't part of my initial point, a hammer might actually decrease the animals pain. And yes If I had the choice between dying as little more than meat that's already on the rack, like nothing, and being killed by someone who actually has to feel the weight of my life, i would chose to die with some heart.

      Also thanks to everyone who disagreed with me and could at least try to understand what I'm trying to say
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      The post was edited 3 times, last by SMOKE. ().

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      dusk wrote:

      My thoughts were never toward the feelings of the animal


      This is the problem right here.

      And I am trying to understand what you're saying, but I honestly can't comprehend your way of thinking, it's just alien and sick to me. So I'm sorry, but what you're saying just upsets me, it really does. And I still don't understand how anyone can rationalise this argument. I just can't see any level on which it would be right, and in any way not sick.
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      Aannddyy on msn wrote:

      hye, i jstu red ur post in the dibates and diskushon bord lol
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      DamnImGood;1062835947 wrote:

      I'm definitely an idiot.



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    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      RollinRightInuit wrote:

      This is the problem right here.

      And I am trying to understand what you're saying, but I honestly can't comprehend your way of thinking, it's just alien and sick to me. So I'm sorry, but what you're saying just upsets me, it really does. And I still don't understand how anyone can rationalise this argument. I just can't see any level on which it would be right, and in any way not sick.

      Thats ok, I never meant to force it on you, and like I said I'm used to that, but like I said, I don't see it as any less fucked up to kill an animal painlessly, I don't care enough about pain, I would like to live so i can live,not so that I don't have to feel pain. Those cows don't get to live either way, and their lives up until execution are complete shit, so i would rather care a little, whether they know it or not. Plus that's assuming the execution is performed sloppily.
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by SMOKE. ().

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      And again, I have to bring up the fact that it's not YOU being killed, and the animals DON'T share your bizarre sense of honour, they just want to live. So to them killing with a hammer is just extra unnecessary torture, there IS no honour in it, just let them die quickly if you're gonna be killing them either way.

      Think about what they feel, not you.
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      Aannddyy on msn wrote:

      hye, i jstu red ur post in the dibates and diskushon bord lol
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      DamnImGood;1062835947 wrote:

      I'm definitely an idiot.



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    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      RollinRightInuit wrote:

      And again, I have to bring up the fact that it's not YOU being killed, and the animals DON'T share your bizarre sense of honour, they just want to live. So to them killing with a hammer is just extra unnecessary torture, there IS no honour in it, just let them die quickly if you're gonna be killing them either way.

      Think about what they feel, not you.

      I don't know what they feel, I'm not a cow, and neither are you, maybe they do have a sense of honor, maybe not, but I do. It isn't extra torture if it doesn't cause more pain, and it is quick, which was the point of my HUGE OBNOXIOUS TEXT
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by SMOKE. ().

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      ~+ Bear +~ wrote:

      Your argument fails here:

      Not everyone will use a sledge hammer right more times than the machine will do it right.

      "Everyone" shouldn't be paid to kill animals if they don't know how to do it right.. I'm pretty sure that goes for any job, so I think my argument is O.K. and if it wasn't, I'm sure there are better reasons than people not knowing how to do their job properly.
      This whole argument reminds me of the matrix by the way, its

      or
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by SMOKE. ().

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      dusk wrote:

      "Everyone" shouldn't be paid to kill animals if they don't know how to do it right.. I'm pretty sure that goes for any job, so I think my argument is O.K. and if it wasn't, I'm sure there are better reasons than people not knowing how to do their job properly.


      You can't be sober right now... Honestly.

      I meant that not every WORKER will get it right as much as a machine - infact, imagine it would be considerabley lower.
      [CENTER]To the dumb question, 'Why me?' the cosmos barely bothers to return the reply, 'Why not?[/CENTER]
      [CENTER]Hitchens[/CENTER]

    • Re: Am I a twisted asshole?

      Hunting, quick deaths, and so on for meat is nature to us. We've been doing it forever, and if you eat meat and hunt then that's perfectly okay. But if you torture, or bred animals just so that you could slit their throats or whatever so that you can be a pure carnivore, you're fucked up in my opinion.

      Simple as that.