"Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

    • "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      This is an extract from a large debate that was held in '09, specifically Stephen Fry.

      [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqB3F6N527U&feature=related']YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

      (If you want to watch the whole debate, this is part one:
      [ame='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kuzYwzGoXw&NR=1']YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame])

      Do you agree with my hero, Stephen Fry? What would you say to him if you met him just after this had finished?
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by Henry ().

    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      The Catholic Church is a force that wishes to have a world that lives by the ideals, and not necessarily the religion of the Catholic Church. This means they are happy to allow the practice of peaceful religions with similar values, including, all Christian denominations, eastern orthodox, Buddhist etc. So long as the all think in a similar manner.

      So the question is, are the ideals of the Catholic Church inherently good?

      I believe that they are.

      Living by the Ten Commandments and having them all simplify out to the thought "Teat all other people in the way that you would treat yourself or your god". to be a very peaceful and equalitarian manner in which to act.

      jordan132;1506655 wrote:

      when i joined guys privacy i figured there would be nothing here except a hole in the wall to peak into the girls privacy
    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      _Frank_ wrote:

      The Catholic Church is a force that wishes to have a world that lives by the ideals, and not necessarily the religion of the Catholic Church. This means they are happy to allow the practice of peaceful religions with similar values, including, all Christian denominations, eastern orthodox, Buddhist etc. So long as the all think in a similar manner.

      So the question is, are the ideals of the Catholic Church inherently good?

      I believe that they are.

      Living by the Ten Commandments and having them all simplify out to the thought "Teat all other people in the way that you would treat yourself or your god". to be a very peaceful and equalitarian manner in which to act.



      But in order for that to work, they would have to follow it themselves and not just make others follow them. Touching Kids, spreading lies about AIDS and Condoms, protecting Kiddie rapists, Hoarding billions of pounds and priceless art that they pillaged and raped from other countries.
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    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      I don't think the Catholic's rules on celibacy within its groups, whilst it has no Biblical basis, is inherently wrong, as monks, nuns, priests etc. do make the personal choice themselves, and from what I've seen so far, the linking of this celibacy doctrine with child abuse is just people saying things. I haven't seen proof that celibacy would have this effect. In that way, the child abuse itself isn't a stain on the Catholic Church. The stain is the measures that the Catholic Church then took to keep the crimes secret, which is totally abhorrent.

      But I definitely think there is far too much money vested in the Catholic Church. Certainly far too much for the rich man to enter the Kingdom of God, so to speak.

      dagingercode wrote:

      What would you say to him if you met him just after this had finished?

      You look like you need a sit-down and a whiskey.
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      [RIGHT]Ta-ta
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    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Esmo wrote:

      ......... I haven't seen proof that celibacy would have this effect. In that way, the child abuse itself isn't a stain on the Catholic Church. The stain is the measures that the Catholic Church then took to keep the crimes secret, which is totally abhorrent.


      Sexual Child Abuse is about as low as you can go. We're not talking about the sheep here. Nor about wolves. The christian shepherds themselves are devouring the flock's lambs that they should be protecting. In ginormous numbers.

      No stain? The priests are the church, aren't they?
      [SIZE=1][SIZE=1]But if God gains people through MY LIES, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? :cool: - Paul: Romans 3.7[/SIZE]
      [SIZE=1]What difference does it make, as long as in every way, whether in FALSEHOOD or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed? :wink: Paul. -Phil. 1:18[/SIZE]
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    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Sababah wrote:

      Sexual Child Abuse is about as low as you can go. We're not talking about the sheep here. Nor about wolves. The christian shepherds themselves are devouring the flock's lambs that they should be protecting. In ginormous numbers.

      No stain? The priests are the church, aren't they?


      it is wrong to say that every priest abuses children, just because there have been cases of child abuse with a small majority of priests. by saying that all priests are child abusers is ignorant, thats like saying that all americans are overweight, or that all english people have bad teeth or that the irish are a bunch of alcoholics. a small majority may be like this but not every person can be tarred with the same brush.
      im in no way saying its right what they did, they abused their powers for evil wrong doing. does that mean that these are the beliefs of the church, definitely not, the church has fully been behind the police in trying to get these men charged and removed from the church in the last 10 years especially. and no the priests are not the church, they are the church's representatives. they are supposed to speak the words of god and preach peace, and i would say 95% of priests worldwide do that, its just a few weak and confused members of the church decided to abuse their powers, they are humans at the end of the day and all humans make mistakes.


      as for the debate, there is a whole lot, as a catholic, which i agree with what stephen fry is saying, you cant avoid the issues of the churches wealth, or its child abuse in the past, or its non ability to think of the world with a different way, by accepting the use of condoms or accepting homosexuals, because at the end of the day, jesus wanted us to love everyone, dont hold any grudges, accept peoples ways of thinking and dont try and change them, love everyone as you would love yourself. for my own faith, i try and challenge the ways we as humans act towards religion, like what reason have i to hate the jewish people or the people of islam, they have done nothing to me personally, or why would i hate the gay people, i have no problem with gay people as long as they dont try and come onto me (but again thats just because im not homosexual, like i would not try and convert them into being straight because that would be ignorant of me.) like we are all different, and we all have a different way of thinking, if we all thought the same it would be a very boring world and we would not have progressed this far as a species. i agree that the church has brought down other faiths in the past, and i think that was wrong of them, i think in modern times, it is up to the person whether they want to be apart of the religion, and most people when they turn say 15-16 do decide whether being a catholic works for them, and sadly the majority are abandoning their faiths, but that is the persons right as a human to make.
      i think the concept of the church is a good idea, but its ways of doing things are not, i think if the church did give more money away to the 3rd world countries and helped stop poverty and deadly diseases which kill soo many then the church is on the right path to being a force for good. because the money the church gets is only supposed to be enough for them to sustain themselves, like buying food, paying for basics like water and electricity, but the church should do more to give back to their followers.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by kopite ().

    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Sababah wrote:

      No stain? The priests are the church, aren't they?

      They are part of it. The problem with attempting to blankly state that the Catholic Church is or isn't a force for good is that the very nature of a 'Church' is an aggregate of very different individuals. There's good and there's bad.
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    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Don't get me wrong amen to Stephen for that speech but singling out Catholicism is a bit off in my opinion. I suppose that debate was about the catholic church but I'll be more impressed when he has the balls to say the same for all the other evil religious organisations out there. Islam and Christianity as a whole are equally or even worse than just the catholic church. A lot of people in the UK will support what he is saying there purely on sectarian grounds which I'm sure Fry wouldn't want, so he really should have spread some of the hate.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Techno Viking ().

    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Techno Viking wrote:

      Don't get me wrong amen to Stephen for that speech but singling out Catholicism is a bit off in my opinion. I suppose that debate was about the catholic church but I'll be more impressed when he has the balls to say the same for all the other evil religious organisations out there. Islam and Christianity as a whole are equally or even worse than just the catholic church. A lot of people in the UK will support what he is saying there purely on sectarian grounds which I'm sure Fry wouldn't want, so he really should have spread some of the hate.


      It was a Catholic Church debate not Islam or Protestant or Buddhism debate. It was solely Catholic Church. He has no reason to mention the other religions.
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    • Re: "Is the Catholic Church a force for the good?"

      Techno Viking wrote:

      Don't get me wrong amen to Stephen for that speech but singling out Catholicism is a bit off in my opinion. I suppose that debate was about the catholic church but I'll be more impressed when he has the balls to say the same for all the other evil religious organisations out there. Islam and Christianity as a whole are equally or even worse than just the catholic church. A lot of people in the UK will support what he is saying there purely on sectarian grounds which I'm sure Fry wouldn't want, so he really should have spread some of the hate.


      And Both Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens has spoken out about other religions. Christopher talks about religions not many ever consider, like neo-paganism.
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