God Stuff.

    • Re: God Stuff.

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      Can you think of an ecosystem that would allow for human life that doesn't have byproducts including natural disasters?


      Omnipotence doesn't always mean the ability to do the logically impossible, or the ability to do absolutely anything. If it's logically impossible for an ecosystem to sustain humans without natural disasters as a side product, then God wouldn't be able to do it. [/QUOTE]
      If our omnipotent God is the creator of the universe, and therefore its laws, I would imagine his scope to set logic in the first place would be fairly broad, let alone to develop an ecosystem that doesn't need natural disasters. It's only illogical right now because of the chemical/physical/biological set up of the universe, all of which would be designs of God.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      Esmo wrote:

      If our omnipotent God is the creator of the universe, and therefore its laws, I would imagine his scope to set logic in the first place would be fairly broad, let alone to develop an ecosystem that doesn't need natural disasters. It's only illogical right now because of the chemical/physical/biological set up of the universe, all of which would be designs of God.
      Only you stumble upon the same set of issues when it comes to the universe.

      The matter, energy, etc. that comprise this universe allow for life to flourish within, although they also allow for phenomena that are deadly to us. It's easy for humans to sit back and say, "well, and omnipotent God could have done this differently or made that better." But in reality, we really don't know what the best method(s) of creation are when it comes to the universe. We can't test what an alternative universe would be like, or how efficient it would be when it comes to human life.

      In the end, the universe, earth, and natural events within earth sort of comprise a flow chart. The universe, while allowing for life, also allows for disaster (i.e. a meteor wiping out life on earth). Earth and the universe work in tangent with each other, through gravity, solar energy, and other means. However, the same solar energy and gravity that allow for life also allow for disaster. If you take away those natural forces, you take away disaster; you also take away life.

      Could God have created a universe with a different set of rules that take away all forms of disaster? Possibly. Taking that into account, that alternative universe may come with an entirely different set of issues.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      David the church you went to sounds like a cult.
      Those people aren't good Christians either. They took it to the extreme...
      They sound deluded.

      ---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      Can you think of an ecosystem that would allow for human life that doesn't have byproducts including natural disasters?

      Omnipotence doesn't always mean the ability to do the logically impossible, or the ability to do absolutely anything. If it's logically impossible for an ecosystem to sustain humans without natural disasters as a side product, then God wouldn't be able to do it.


      Omnipotence means unlimited power. God should be able to do the logically impossible as he has unlimited power and if he created the universe he decided what was logically possible...

      Earth's not supposed to be paradise. Of course there would be disasters.
      Hello JC - Cade

    • Re: God Stuff.

      Number Juan wrote:

      Omnipotence means unlimited power. God should be able to do the logically impossible as he has unlimited power and if he created the universe he decided what was logically possible...
      Omnipotence has more than one connotation and meaning. There is no universal definition.

      Depending on the God we're referring to, very few religions describe a God that has absolute power. Even the Abrahamic God is not omnipotent in the sense that he can do absolutely everything and anything.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      Omnipotence has more than one connotation and meaning. There is no universal definition.

      Depending on the God we're referring to, very few religions describe a God that has absolute power. Even the Abrahamic God is not omnipotent in the sense that he can do absolutely everything and anything.


      Well... the Abrahamic God does have the sense to be able to do everything. He created the world, he can destroy the world (Noah's Ark) and he judges people upon death which I believe are the most important aspects of any religion. I was certainly taught that god was omnipotent in my R.E classes, when I was in high school, that if he wasn't omnipotent he would have no control over his power to judge, create etc...
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by BadaBing ().

    • Re: God Stuff.

      BadaBing wrote:

      Well... the Abrahamic God does have the sense to be able to do everything. He created the world, he can destroy the world (Noah's Ark) and he judges people upon death which I believe are the most important aspects of any religion. I was certainly taught that god was omnipotent in my R.E classes, when I was in high school, that if he wasn't omnipotent he would have no control over his power to judge, create etc...
      Being capable of creating the world, destroying the world and judging people doesn't, by definition, make one omnipotent. It makes you an exceedingly potent force.

      Noah's Ark is a story concerning the annihilation of man's evil, not the complete destruction of the earth. If God were to engulf the earth with a supernova or a black hole, that's destroying the world. That would also make for one awesome way to die, I might add.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      Being capable of creating the world, destroying the world and judging people doesn't, by definition, make one omnipotent. It makes you an exceedingly potent force.

      Noah's Ark is a story concerning the annihilation of man's evil, not the complete destruction of the earth. If God were to engulf the earth with a supernova or a black hole, that's destroying the world. That would also make for one awesome way to die, I might add.


      Okay it's not destroyibg the Earth but its still destroying a civilization which is pretty omnipotent.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      moot wrote:

      I grew up immersed in Christianity and as a result I'm extremely familiar with it, but I no longer align myself with any organised religion. Hell, I have two or three Bibles in my room somewhere. My parents, especially my mom, are very devout.

      Growing up, I quickly became disgusted with how many Christians behave. From the time I was born until about 13, I regularly attended various churches with my parents, and the major thing that began to irritate me was legalism. This is essentially adding things to the Bible that don't exist in order to make the followers feel more holy and righteous than "non-churchgoers."

      For example, nowhere in the entire Bible, Old Testament or New, does it forbid the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Some of the Christians at these churches were so hardcore that they wouldn't even buy cooking wine for fear it would look as though they were being "tempted by evil." I knew one kid who wasn't allowed to drink IBC root beer because the bottles look very similar to beer bottles and "as Christians we should abstain from even the very appearance of evil." I was extremely disgusted by how they looked down upon people who do drink alcohol, and a few of the adults who taught my Sunday School class even went so far as to tell us that people who drink "will eventually become alcoholics and die." So yeah. In their quest to feel holy, these people at church would judge others for breaking their own invented rules, and also indoctrinate children with information that is obviously medically false.

      And those are just a few of the problems that I have with organised religion, and why I avoid it. Organised religion leads to legalism, and legalism leads to splits into different sects/denominations over which made-up rule they don't agree on, and is just a tangled, ridiculous mess. Christianity and Islam are probably the worst when it comes to legalism.

      So yeah, sorry for the long rant, I just had to get that out there. While I can appreciate Jesus' teachings, I am in no way, shape or form a part of his Fan Club. ;)

      Ugh, yeah, a lot of Christians are unfortunately like that. My pastor always said that the worst people to be around are church people, because they believe that since they're immersed in the Word they "know" more about certain things that are wrong even if they feel right, and have that holier-than-thou attitude. The bible actually says that drinking is okay as long as you avoid drunkeness, a glass of wine a day is good for the heart, too. Legalism is all apart of that compromising of what's right and wrong, well at least to me it is, so I'm non-denominational. I feel like we're put on Earth for a reason, to see that being born with no memory of the other world or even knowing who God is and with no proof thrown at us, if we can make our way back to the faith and fulfill our purpose. It's why bad things happen to us, I had to go through depression and pure hatred from every corner just to know what it felt like for other people in the same situation and want to spread cheer to everyone for no reason.

      ---------- Post added at 06:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------

      Dr.Carter wrote:

      It's not proof, it's not even evidence. Just because we are here does not mean you automatically have to chalk it up to a higher power. All that does is create a circular train of thought. If God created us, who created God? etc.

      No one knows how existence "exists", including all the people that will tell you that they do. But the lack of a complete theory does not mean you can just accept whatever else someone puts forward. Science's understanding of the universe is no where near definitive, but it's miles ahead of what religion has contributed to human understanding.

      For instance, let's say you asked 2 people what the square root of 5 was. Person A might tell you that it will take some time to figure out and we might know in our life time, whereas Person B will tell you it's 2. Just because Person A doesn't have any answer, does not automatically make Person B right. It's a crude analogy, but you get the bottom line, I hope.



      No, I wouldn't. But if it makes you feel better to know that your spiritual beliefs are a result of desperation, then far be it from me to tell you otherwise.

      I don't know if you were asking that or just stating an example xD, but to answer, even though i'm not 100% on this, God's realm isn't limited by time like this universe is. There's no definite beginning there, and everything just kind of happens (I think. There could be another idea similar to time that shows how events progress in that realm, but it's nothing we could comprehend right now).
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      Cyber Policeman wrote:


      I don't know if you were asking that or just stating an example xD, but to answer, even though i'm not 100% on this, God's realm isn't limited by time like this universe is. There's no definite beginning there, and everything just kind of happens (I think. There could be another idea similar to time that shows how events progress in that realm, but it's nothing we could comprehend right now).


      I'm not asking that because there is no answer, it's simply an example of how the circular thinking of "something HAD to create us" gives us no greater understanding of our existence. That isn't to say that religion doesn't attempt to answer the question of who created our creator, but all their explanations seem ridiculous if you ask me.
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    • Re: God Stuff.

      Despite the fact that christians have started TONS of wars in gods name....wait! yea, god is an excuse in my opinion. Some people can't stand the fact to think the end is the end so they made god. Others didnt want to be blamed for what they did so they claim it in the name of god. Now a days people have been living for so long thinking that he exists that they cant stand the thought he's not. In a few hundred years christianity will be nothing more than a myth, so is the way of humanity