Israeli - Palestine Conflict

BadaBing · Apr 25th 2011, 12:05am

Studying this at the moment coupled with the Arab revolutions thats happening at this time makes me think of why no one is stopping Israeli crimes against the Palestinians at the moment.

My Israeli seminar tutor calls Israel a facist psychotic state run on adrenaline.

Many Palestinian people since 1948 have been forcefully displaced from their homes, those who are currently in Israel or under Occupation in Gaza or the West Bank can, if their lucky have 30 minutes notice, if not 5 minutes notice, before their homes are forcefully taken from them or demolished by the Israeli military. What do people across the world do, give aid to Israel... US Taxpayers are paying for Israeli warcrimes through international aid. Israel gets as much economic help as all the countries combined.

Entire Latin America, African, Caribean economic aid is approximately 62.5 billion from 1949-1996, population approximately 1.05 billion, aid dollars approximately spent per person $59

Entire Israel US Aid 1949-1996 is $62.5 billion, population approximately 5 million, aid dollars approximately spent per person $10,775

Of the total US aid spent Israel recieves 1/3.

It annoys me how much the media, the government seem to let Israel and to a great extent 'cover up' Israeli warcrimes. The US extensively uses its power of veto, over 40 times to stop UN resolutions against Israel. I don't know of the last time I have heard of Israeli crimes being reported in the news, wheras there is a Palestinian crime on wikipedia current events page right now.

xyz123456 · Apr 25th 2011, 1:35am

It's shameful and disgusting, really. Reading any news about the conflict always makes me rage hard at how one-sided the coverage is, and how we're supposed to believe that Israel is a poor, innocent victim and the Palestinians are evil terrorists. Completely ridiculous and awful. :nono:

RDCF · Apr 26th 2011, 11:32am

BadaBing wrote:

Many Palestinian people since 1948 have been forcefully displaced from their homes, those who are currently in Israel or under Occupation in Gaza or the West Bank can, if their lucky have 30 minutes notice, if not 5 minutes notice, before their homes are forcefully taken from them or demolished by the Israeli military.

In 1947, the UN decided to seperate Palestine into two countries, Israel and Palestine. the israelis agreed, but the Palestinians reacted in attacking israeli settlements and starting the war of 1948. When they started the war, they lost any right they had to claim something from the israelis. In this world the attacker needs to pay for his aggression, and i don't think i need to explain why. what would you say, if Argentina demand to get indemnities from UK for the damage they had in Falkland War?

About the warcrimes, it's very easy to sit in quiet europe and complain about the israeli warcrimes, but you have to understand that in battles with enemy that hide among civilians, with all the sadness, it's impossible to avoid killing civilians. The responsibility about these killings belongs to the terrorists who use them, not to the country that only try to defend herself. By the way, the british forces in Afghanistan definitely don't do less warcrimes than the israeli forces.

David wrote:

how we're supposed to believe that Israel is a poor, innocent victim and the Palestinians are evil terrorists.

israel isn't poor but definitely innocent. if the palestinians are weaker doesn't mean they're right. and "freedom warriors" that kill children with knives although they have guns are totally evil terrorists.

kopite · Apr 26th 2011, 12:37pm

Well as said above, when th UN decided to separate Palestine into two countries. But not only Palestine, but the surrounding countries tried to destroy the country before it ever got off the ground, through war and violence. I'm not fully educated in the conflict, but I remember watching Ross Kemp middle east special, he went to all sides, and from what was gathered, no one is right. I think there needs to be compromises on both sides for there to be peace. Like Israel need to relinquish their control in Palestine, where they basically have a modern day Berlin Wall separating Palestinians from their old communities. But Palestinians also need to stop the terrorism, killing countless innocent people. They also launch rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip to kill many innocent people. I think the UN does need to step in, but to resolve things diplomatically and peacefully to stop the bloodshed.
The reason that the media and UN support Israel is because according to the Democracy index, Israel is the only country in the Middle East with an Established Democracy.
Basically I think there needs to be drastic changes on both sides for there to be a lasting peace.

Of this does not make much sense I do apologise I just got up, so I'm still kind of sleepy.

xyz123456 · Apr 26th 2011, 1:51pm

RDCF wrote:

About the warcrimes, it's very easy to sit in quiet europe and complain about the israeli warcrimes, but you have to understand that in battles with enemy that hide among civilians, with all the sadness, it's impossible to avoid killing civilians. The responsibility about these killings belongs to the terrorists who use them, not to the country that only try to defend herself.

It is if you don't go to war to begin with. The entire premise of the creation of the state of Israel was based on an old religious tale that God had promised them that land, in spite of the fact that there were already people living there and there was no real justification for just taking it. There's a reason why the UN recognizes Zionism as a racist ideology.

People killing each other over a patch of desert because of some old religious tradition is ridiculous and shouldn't still be happening, but it does.

RDCF wrote:

By the way, the british forces in Afghanistan definitely don't do less warcrimes than the israeli forces.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

RDCF wrote:

israel isn't poor but definitely innocent.

I meant poor in the sense of "deserving of sympathy", not poor as in "no money." And no, the state of Israel has needlessly killed many innocent Palestinian citizens and doesn't care. No government is innocent, and they are no exception.

RDCF wrote:

if the palestinians are weaker doesn't mean they're right.

They're not "right" because they're weaker, it's a matter of being persecuted needlessly out of a sense of entitlement to the land (based on some retarded religious tale from thousands of years ago.) Most Palestinians don't give a fuck and just want to be left alone and live in peace.

RDCF wrote:

and "freedom warriors" that kill children with knives although they have guns are totally evil terrorists.

While it's true that crimes against humanity are committed by both sides, that still doesn't mean that all Palestinians are terrorists or want to kill Jews. As I already mentioned, most would be perfectly happy to live alongside everyone in peace, but Israel doesn't seem interested in that.

Israel has done an excellent job of playing the victim all while it is actually responsible for a significant share of the violence. They're further emboldened by the support they receive from religious (and ignorant) Americans who believe the religious mumbo-jumbo about Israelis being "chosen by God" or whatever. :nono:

RDCF · Apr 26th 2011, 3:31pm

David wrote:

It is if you don't go to war to begin with. The entire premise of the creation of the state of Israel was based on an old religious tale that God had promised them that land, in spite of the fact that there were already people living there and there was no real justification for just taking it.

The jewish people lived in palestine before at least 2500-3000 years and that is verified by archaeological pieces of evidence. on the other hand, the palestinians came there only 1400 years ago, as part of the muslim conquerors that killed/forced to convert the byzantine christian and the jews that populated that area at this time. so also if you take a look at the history, the jews have the right on this land.

David wrote:

There's a reason why the UN recognizes Zionism as a racist ideology.

Don't take the decisions of the UN assembly too seriously. since the muslim countries have there automatic majority, if they wish they can decide tomorrow the the moon is green.

David wrote:

I meant poor in the sense of "deserving of sympathy", not poor as in "no money." And no, the state of Israel has needlessly killed many innocent Palestinian citizens and doesn't care. No government is innocent, and they are no exception.

I didn't mean "innocent" absolutely, but compared to the palestinians israel is innocent indeed. the israeli government pays hunderd-thousands NIS every year as compensations to palestinian residents. on the other hand, the palestinian government pays similar amounts to terrorists that are imprisoned in israel in consequence of their terrorist strikes against civilians.

David wrote:

Most Palestinians don't give a fuck and just want to be left alone and live in peace.

so i really would like to know why 54% of those "peaceful" palestinians support terrorist strikes against israeli civilians (and also not only in the west bank).

David wrote:

While it's true that crimes against humanity are committed by both sides, that still doesn't mean that all Palestinians are terrorists or want to kill Jews. As I already mentioned, most would be perfectly happy to live alongside everyone in peace.

I wish you were right. but in spite of the sadness, this conflict is not a simple-to-resolve territorial conflict. it is just another front in the war that her results we saw in 9/11 in NY, in 7/7 in london, in 11/3 in Madrid and the end doesn't seem close.

xyz123456 · Apr 26th 2011, 4:00pm

RDCF wrote:

The jewish people lived in palestine before at least 2500-3000 years and that is verified by archaeological pieces of evidence. on the other hand, the palestinians came there only 1400 years ago, as part of the muslim conquerors that killed/forced to convert the byzantine christian and the jews that populated that area at this time.

Uh, who gives a shit what people were doing thousands of years ago? It doesn't anyone living today the right to just barge in and take land out from under people who were already settled there.

RDCF wrote:

so also if you take a look at the history, the jews have the right on this land.

No. What happened thousands of years ago is completely and utterly irrelevant now in modern times.

RDCF wrote:

Don't take the decisions of the UN assembly too seriously. since the muslim countries have there automatic majority, if they wish they can decide tomorrow the the moon is green.

Doesn't change the fact that Zionism is a harmful and malevolent ideology.

RDCF wrote:

I didn't mean "innocent" absolutely, but compared to the palestinians israel is innocent indeed. the israeli government pays hunderd-thousands NIS every year as compensations to Palestinian residents.

Which I'm sure they can appreciate when they're not too busy dodging the shells Israel is firing at them.

RDCF wrote:

on the other hand, the palestinian government pays similar amounts to terrorists that are imprisoned in israel in consequence of their terrorist strikes against civilians.

so i really would like to know why 54% of those "peaceful" Palestinians support terrorist strikes against israeli civilians (and also not only in the west bank).

And why do you think those terrorists are doing what they're doing? Do you honestly think some people just wake up one morning and decide to go blow shit up for no reason? When one barges in with the excuse of "our ancestors lived here 10,000,000,000 years ago, now get the fuck out!" and start shooting, it's obviously going to piss some people off.

I don't condone terrorism of course, but it's a simple fact that if you kick a hornet's nest, you're going to get stung.

RDCF wrote:

I wish you were right. but in spite of the sadness, this conflict is not a simple-to-resolve territorial conflict. it is just another front in the war that her results we saw in 9/11 in NY, in 7/7 in london, in 11/3 in Madrid and the end doesn't seem close.

It would be solved virtually overnight if people would stop fighting over a shitty patch of desert, and withdraw any and all military occupation wherever it is found. The U.S. is responsible for a lot of the Middle Eastern conflicts, both directly and indirectly, and their push to preserve the current state of Israel isn't helping.

None of these conflicts would be occurring if they hadn't been started in the first place.

BadaBing · Apr 26th 2011, 9:02pm

RDCF wrote:

In 1947, the UN decided to seperate Palestine into two countries, Israel and Palestine. the israelis agreed, but the Palestinians reacted in attacking israeli settlements and starting the war of 1948. When they started the war, they lost any right they had to claim something from the israelis. In this world the attacker needs to pay for his aggression, and i don't think i need to explain why. what would you say, if Argentina demand to get indemnities from UK for the damage they had in Falkland War?

Its a lot more complicated than that.

You make it sound that Israel was the defendant, when tbh who is the aggressor and who is the defendant is almost really impossible to know. Before 1947 during the Mandate, Zionist, right -wing militia groups attacked Palestinians and vice versa. Its not just 1947 when the war suddenly started, the conflict in a way started during the 1920's.

RDCF wrote:

About the warcrimes, it's very easy to sit in quiet europe and complain about the israeli warcrimes, but you have to understand that in battles with enemy that hide among civilians, with all the sadness, it's impossible to avoid killing civilians. The responsibility about these killings belongs to the terrorists who use them, not to the country that only try to defend herself. By the way, the british forces in Afghanistan definitely don't do less warcrimes than the israeli forces.

That is pretty much ridiculous. Yes civilians are attacked in war, but when there is no war going on and civilians are attacked it is completly wrong. Israel constantly breaks International Law by building illegal Israeli settlements on Palestianian territory. It treats Palestianian's like non-class people. The Army does not protect Palestianian citizens. The army will literally watch as Israeli settler children throw stones at Palestianian school children. If the Palestianian's react they are stopped by the military and can be thrown in jail.

We had a speaker come in to talk to us about her time in Israel and Gaza. She showed us pictures and was there at the time when the Israeli army arrested a 14 year old, 18 year old and 8 year old boy and accused them of throwing stones at the army. (which isn't actually illegal under international law) I can't remember what happened to the 18 year old. The 14 year old however went to court and was told to plead guilty otherwise he would likely have lost and would have had a criminal record attached to him. So he pleaded guilty. The 8 year old, apart from being blindfolded and tied to a chair was made to sign a document, written in Hebrew (which he did not understand) and was released, and the family do not have a clue what he signed.

I have about 10 other stories of what Israel military really is.

kopite wrote:

Well as said above, when th UN decided to separate Palestine into two countries. But not only Palestine, but the surrounding countries tried to destroy the country before it ever got off the ground, through war and violence. I'm not fully educated in the conflict, but I remember watching Ross Kemp middle east special, he went to all sides, and from what was gathered, no one is right. I think there needs to be compromises on both sides for there to be peace. Like Israel need to relinquish their control in Palestine, where they basically have a modern day Berlin Wall separating Palestinians from their old communities. But Palestinians also need to stop the terrorism, killing countless innocent people. They also launch rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip to kill many innocent people. I think the UN does need to step in, but to resolve things diplomatically and peacefully to stop the bloodshed.
The reason that the media and UN support Israel is because according to the Democracy index, Israel is the only country in the Middle East with an Established Democracy.
Basically I think there needs to be drastic changes on both sides for there to be a lasting peace.

Of this does not make much sense I do apologise I just got up, so I'm still kind of sleepy.

Again lot more complicated.

I would be all for Israel being a state but there are parts of history where it is very difficult not to be one sided in an event. This is one of those times. I'm all for a Jewish state, I have nothing against Jews. It's Israel I have a problem with.

During the War of 1948, there is a large number of evidence of Israeli Military ethnic cleansing, destruction of villages, killing of women and children, forced eviction from homes. etc... The most serious of them being the Deir Yassin Massacre. Over 250 people were reported killed of which the rape of pregnant women and killing of them were also recorded. It;s very hard to not justify an Arab invasion of Israel based on these grounds (even though the Arab countries had their own agendas in 'helping' Palestine)

I do believe that the rocket attacks need to stop, I think a lot of Palestinians would want that too. However the UN does nothing, Israel has no ease of occupation. Gaza and West Bank are pretty much effectively Israeli run prisons.

Again with with media and US supports Israel is more complicated. Btw Israel I would not regard as a true democracy it is an ethnic democracy (look it up on wikipedia, it describes everything about the Israeli state)

Why media and US support it is because they see it as a blockade against the supposed Arab threat. As well as the religious idea that the Jews belong in Israel because God promised it to them blah blah blah.

RDCF wrote:

The jewish people lived in palestine before at least 2500-3000 years and that is verified by archaeological pieces of evidence. on the other hand, the palestinians came there only 1400 years ago, as part of the muslim conquerors that killed/forced to convert the byzantine christian and the jews that populated that area at this time. so also if you take a look at the history, the jews have the right on this land.

Which means that no doubt Americans have to leave America...

Just because Jews had the land 2000 years ago, does not give them any right to forcefully remove people who have lived there for the last 1400 years. And tbh the Jews living in the Muslim lands had it a lot better than they did living in Europe.

RDCF wrote:

I wish you were right. but in spite of the sadness, this conflict is not a simple-to-resolve territorial conflict. it is just another front in the war that her results we saw in 9/11 in NY, in 7/7 in london, in 11/3 in Madrid and the end doesn't seem close.

Palestinian terrorism has ABSOLUTELY no connections with 9/11 or 7/7 etc... and thinking it is is ignorant of the situation. Whenever anyone mentions terrorism they link it straight to 9/11 when it can be definatly completly different. In one countries eyes their terrorists and in the home countries eyes their freedom fighters. Israel had their own terrorists who blew up and killed innocent people, the King James Hotel for example. But they won't be labelled terrorists in Israel, they will be labelled heroes.

I don't condone terrorism in anyway, and I don't think terrorism against Israel will get them anywhere because Israel will still become more and more paranoid, and take it out on innocent people in Gaza and the West Bank. It will give the country more 'justification' that they are an endangered species, that everyone is out to kill them and so they have to defend themselves by attacking outwards.

There is a drama programme on Channel 4 at moment if from UK called the Promise, which is probably one of the best, and most historically correct dramas I have ever seen. There is nothing I can fault about it. Which is on the Arab - israeli conflict, that pretty much shows exactly the situation in Israel and Palestine, and shows it from both sides very well.

RDCF · Apr 26th 2011, 9:31pm

David wrote:

Uh, who gives a shit what people were doing thousands of years ago? It doesn't anyone living today the right to just barge in and take land out from under people who were already settled there.

Who are living here today doesn't matter. if someone go to your house and kick you out from it, you will have the right to kick his ass out even after 50 years and also if he sold it to other people.

David wrote:

Doesn't change the fact that Zionism is a harmful and malevolent ideology.

Fact? bullshit. the Zionism is like all the independence movements in the 20th century.

David wrote:

Which I'm sure they can appreciate when they're not too busy dodging the shells Israel is firing at them.

Or in planning how to kill children in their bed today.

David wrote:

And why do you think those terrorists are doing what they're doing? Do you honestly think some people just wake up one morning and decide to go blow shit up for no reason?

Well, surely they have a reason, but not the reason you thought about. they have very simple aim, first they will throw all the jews to the sea and take over palestine and then they will do it to anyone who refuse to be muslim around the world.

David wrote:

When one barges in with the excuse of "our ancestors lived here 10,000,000,000 years ago, now get the fuck out!" and start shooting, it's obviously going to piss some people off.

The first zionists didn't plan to kick the palestinians out from palestine, they planned to give them citizenship and full citizen rights. if they don't want that, they have 22 arab countries to go to (including jordan that more than 70% of its population are palestinians). they chose to wage a war instead of living in peace in jewish country, they need to pay for that. in 1947 they got the opportunity to have a country they even not deserve, they refused and lost their right. that's it.

David wrote:

It would be solved virtually overnight if people would stop fighting over a shitty patch of desert, and withdraw any and all military occupation wherever it is found.

That's exactly what i'm trying to explain to you, that's absolutly not just a fighting over a damned desert, that's an international conflict between the fundemental islam and the western world, conflict that won't be solved even if 1000 palestinian countries will be established. when people in the western world support the palestinians they simply shoot their own leg.

.

BadaBing · Apr 26th 2011, 9:49pm

RDCF wrote:

The first zionists didn't plan to kick the palestinians out from palestine, they planned to give them citizenship and full citizen rights. if they don't want that, they have 22 arab countries to go to (including jordan that more than 70% of its population are palestinians). they chose to wage a war instead of living in peace in jewish country, they need to pay for that. in 1947 they got the opportunity to have a country they even not deserve, they refused and lost their right. that's it.

In a government they did not want to be in.

Yeah there are other Arab countries to go to, but typical Zionist rhetoric who always look a trivial and never look deep enough into the Palestinian cause, or simply do not want to. Leaving your home to a foreign land is not a simple just movement over borders. It's leaving, your home, your family, your friends.

kopite · Apr 26th 2011, 10:53pm

BadaBing wrote:

I do believe that the rocket attacks need to stop, I think a lot of Palestinians would want that too. However the UN does nothing, Israel has no ease of occupation. Gaza and West Bank are pretty much effectively Israeli run prisons.

Again with with media and US supports Israel is more complicated. Btw Israel I would not regard as a true democracy it is an ethnic democracy (look it up on wikipedia, it describes everything about the Israeli state)

The Israeli army have been relinquishing their control over the years of the Gaza Strip and handing over control to the Palestinian army in the last few years. I am pretty sure that they only have control on a few areas where Jewish pilgrims go to worship. Only this weekend a man was killed because he entered the Gaza Strip without army protection. The Israeli army guide pilgrims across safely and back without conflict. I do agree in places like the west bank though what they are doing is wrong.

I never said Israel is a true democracy, I said that it is one of the most established democracies among the Middle East countries. The rest are borderline authoritarian regimes.

RDCF · Apr 27th 2011, 10:27am

BadaBing wrote:

you make it sound Israel was the defendant, when tbh who is the aggressor and who is the defendant is almost really impossible to know. Before 1947 during the Mandate, Zionist, right -wing militia groups attacked Palestinians and vice versa. Its not just 1947 when the war suddenly started, the conflict in a way started during the 1920's.

The violent level of the conflict started more or less during the 1920's indeed, but it started with the 1920-1921 palestine riots that were opened by the palestinians. until the 1930's, the policy of the israelis (the Yishuv) was not to attack the rioters until they came to jewish settlements and not to react with any revenge actions (Havlagah). so the aggressors were the palesintians also in the earlier levels of the conflict.

BadaBing wrote:

That is pretty much ridiculous. Yes civilians are attacked in war, but when there is no war going on and civilians are attacked it is completly wrong.Israel constantly breaks International Law by building illegal Israeli settlements on Palestianian territory.

when rockets explode in your country every day and totally ruin the course of life of about 200,000 civilians you can definitely call it war. somehow it became consensus in europe that the settlements are prohibited by the international law, but that's inaccurate. that's legal controversy, and many international law experts (like proffesor Alan Dershowitz) say that the international law doesn't treat to case like that. i'm not sure, but AFAIK one of the reasons it's because the relevant sections treat to case when the area was conquered from other country, but the West Bank was conquered from Jordan that itself conquered it in 1948 without any mandate, and in 1989 said that it conceded it and cancelled the Jordanian citizenship of all the palstinians there. so this area isn't occupied by any country and israel has the strongest rights on it.

BadaBing wrote:

The Army does not protect Palestianian citizens. The army will literally watch as Israeli settler children throw stones at Palestianian school children. If the Palestianian's react they are stopped by the military and can be thrown in jail.

that's completely untrue. the israelis in the West Bank are commited to the israeli law and actions like that are prohibited of course.

BadaBing wrote:

We had a speaker come in to talk to us about her time in Israel and Gaza. She showed us pictures and was there at the time when the Israeli army arrested a 14 year old, 18 year old and 8 year old boy and accused them of throwing stones at the army. (which isn't actually illegal under international law) I can't remember what happened to the 18 year old. The 14 year old however went to court and was told to plead guilty otherwise he would likely have lost and would have had a criminal record attached to him. So he pleaded guilty. The 8 year old, apart from being blindfolded and tied to a chair was made to sign a document, written in Hebrew (which he did not understand) and was released, and the family do not have a clue what he signed.

what do you expect the israeli army to do? throwing stones doesn't mean throwing gravel, it's more like throwing rocks, one hit in the head and you're out. the guilt is imposed on the one that send those children to do that (military use of children is blatant offence on the international law). again, it is very easy to blame israel in warcrimes when you don't have to deal with problems like battles with terrorists that hide in hospital and mosques and use women and children as human shield. when the british and the american forces met these problems in Afghanistan and Iraq they didn't do less warcrimes and they found out that is impossible to combine the rules of the Fourth Geneve Convention with effective fighting against the terror.
that's because this convention was intended to determine rules in war between two sovereign countries, not in war between regular army and terror organizations which use civilians without any scrulpes.

BadaBing wrote:

During the War of 1948, there is a large number of evidence of Israeli Military ethnic cleansing, destruction of villages, killing of women and children, forced eviction from homes. etc... The most serious of them being the Deir Yassin Massacre. Over 250 people were reported killed of which the rape of pregnant women and killing of them were also recorded. It;s very hard to not justify an Arab invasion of Israel based on these grounds (even though the Arab countries had their own agendas in 'helping' Palestine).

First of all, most of the palestinian refugees weren't forced to leave, the arab countries told them they should leave now without fighting, and after the arab forces will throw all the jews to the sea, they will be able to return to their homes. that didn't happen, and suddenly, the arab countries that were so enthusiastic to help their "brothers", refused to give them citizenship and left them in refugees camp in terrible conditions. i didn't say the israelis were perfect, of course some serious event happened (although there are some exaggerations about them, in Deir Yassin Massacre, as an example, 100 to 150 civilians killed and were not any cases of rape or bodies mutilation), but in the worst case the israeli army did very partial ethnic cleansing. in contrast to the palestinians that did it completely, even one jew didn't stay in his home under palestinian control. so it's pretty ridiculous to blame israel in ethnic cleansing.

BadaBing wrote:

Just because Jews had the land 2000 years ago, does not give them any right to forcefully remove people who have lived there for the last 1400 years. And tbh the Jews living in the Muslim lands had it a lot better than they did living in Europe.

The muslim conquerors didn't have this right either, so they should leave first.

BadaBing wrote:

Palestinian terrorism has ABSOLUTELY no connections with 9/11 or 7/7 etc... and thinking it is ignorant of the situation. Whenever anyone mentions terrorism they link it straight to 9/11 when it can be definatly completly different. In one countries eyes their terrorists and in the home countries eyes their freedom fighters. Israel had their own terrorists who blew up and killed innocent people, the King James Hotel for example. But they won't be labelled terrorists in Israel, they will be labelled heroes.

That definitely doesn't explain why the palestinians danced on their roofs and gave candies to children in the street when they heard about 9/11 (there are video clips that document this). the ideology of Hamas and El-Qaida is very similar, they won't be satisfied by palestinian country or by retreat of NATO forces from Afghanistan, they will stop only when the Shariah Law will dominate the entire world. concessions will only convince them that they are in right way (and just a small comment about the King David Hotel Blowing, The Irgun warned the british and told them to evacuate people from the building but they refused).

BadaBing wrote:

Yeah there are other Arab countries to go to, but typical Zionist rhetoric who always look a trivial and never look deep enough into the Palestinian cause, or simply do not want to. Leaving your home to a foreign land is not a simple just movement over borders. It's leaving, your home, your family, your friends.

The UNHCR succeeded to settle millions in the last 50 years, but just in middle east there's special agency that perpetuates this bad situation and prevents any attempt to solve this problem permanently. not to mention that it helps terror organizations almost actively. with some goodwill from the world, all the palesitinian refugees will be able to be settled in their own houses around the world in maximum 10 years.

Vice · Apr 27th 2011, 10:43am

iraq wouldve been building nukes if not for israel

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