homosexuality vs incest

Le Roi Lion · May 2nd 2012, 6:17pm

I'll just say that homosexuality is not a disease and never will be, whereas incest well might be a disease.
I'm fighting for people recognizing the childish attractions and sexual desires, because yes, children of 12 or 13 years old can feel sexual desires, but despite all, incest is a power abuse from the parents on their child, which, by the way, is not their role.
I'd like to say that a child who feels attraction for someone who exceeded the majority is not a rape of any kind and that is not pedophilia either. Therefore don't be shocked when a child loves someone older, why he could not ?
We have trending to forget that a child can feel the love all as us. Pedophilia is when an adult abuses of his power to get a sexual relationship with a child. Although my own opinion about sexual relationships between a child and an adult is not the same because I can understand that at 13, we can want to have one. But I don't want to convince people about that, already if they admit that a child can feel love for someone older, we'll have maked a big step forward.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging the pedophilia, I'm understanding a child can feel the love and desires.

Papa Bear · May 2nd 2012, 7:33pm

RDCF wrote:

i'm against legalizing incest, less because the problematicalness of the act itself (which i think is disgusting, btw, but of course i can't force people to act on my own personal belief only) and more because the hidden meaning behind such idea. The postulation behind this idea is that there's on importance at all to the traditional family values (you know, heterosexual couple with kids and without cheating) and it's actually a series of social taboos without any reasoning behind. obviously, when that's your starting point, legalizing incest, saying there's no problem with cheating and divorce etc... is just the next step. The results of that attitude, that at least according to my impression, is very popular in the western world (especially europe), is the worrisome divorce rates and the negative growth population in the western world. The irony is that this attitude becomes more popular exactly when psychological studies (according to my knowledge, anyway) prove repeatedly how much good family life is vital to to children's development and to a human being happiness. In short, i'm against anything that weakens the values i've mentioned before. Since incest fits into that category i'm against it. In principle, i should've been against homosexuallity as well, but since they don't have other options (in contrast to incest couple who could have picked a normal partner) i agree with legalizing homosexuallity, although not much more than that (let them adopt children, for instance).

I'm having trouble understanding your post. Just to be clear, you're against incest because it compromises the traditional family values?

RDCF wrote:

(you know, heterosexual couple with kids and without cheating)

How will it compromise this? the heterosexual couple is seen on the article, (only exception is that they're actually brother and sister, but the couple of kids and no cheating is still in place

RDCF wrote:

legalizing incest, saying there's no problem with cheating and divorce etc... is just the next step.

This is just a slippery slope.

RDCF wrote:

worrisome divorce rates and the negative growth population in the western world. The irony is that this attitude becomes more popular exactly when psychological studies (according to my knowledge, anyway) prove repeatedly how much good family life is vital to to children's development and to a human being happiness.

kinda irrelevant to incest, but here we go...
divorce - some people talk like divorce is the end of the world and the end of a happy child but that's not all true. yeah no one really wants their parents to divorce, but sometimes it's better than enduring a hostile environment all the time at home.
negative population growth - others argue that the earth is becoming overpopulated and might soon reach it's carrying-capacity, so depending how you look at it, this is also not as bad

RDCF wrote:

In short, i'm against anything that weakens the values i've mentioned before. Since incest fits into that category i'm against it. In principle, i should've been against homosexuallity as well, but since they don't have other options (in contrast to incest couple who could have picked a normal partner)

if your statement of "they could have picked a normal partner" stands, then it could also apply to homosexual couples, they too, could have picked a "normal partner"

but see it's not as easy that. you can't really pick and chose who you fall in love with. when you fall in love you fall in love, and you can't force yourself to love someone that you don't

RDCF wrote:

i agree with legalizing homosexuallity, although not much more than that (let them adopt children, for instance).

aside from the point that homosexual is total opposite of traditional marriage and family values, why shouldn't they be able to adopt? they can probably offer a child more love and care than what they would receive in an adoption center

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

CocaineCowboy wrote:

Incest should not be legalized and for one main reason, gene mutations. I read an article somewhere that if you have babies with someone up to your second cousin (something along those lines) you run a HUGE risk of having a really mutated baby. And that is why it was outlawed.

Would you also make it illegal for people with disabilities, women over 40, or obese people to have children because they are at a higher risk of producing children with disabilities?

the government want perfect children after all. the perfect race, and no disabilities. also, heil hitler!

if you would, then this argument can stand. if you wouldn't, then don't be a hypocrite

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

CocaineCowboy wrote:

Homosexuality involves two people who have little to no family ties at all and no gene mutations because they would have to adopt a child if they wanted one.

what if an incest couple choses to adopt? they're aware that they're at higher risk, then they could adopt and provide and care for a child maybe better than other couples

---------- Post added at 02:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

Le Roi Lion wrote:

I'll just say that homosexuality is not a disease and never will be, whereas incest well might be a disease.

lol what?

Le Roi Lion wrote:

I'm fighting for people recognizing the childish attractions and sexual desires, because yes, children of 12 or 13 years old can feel sexual desires, but despite all, incest is a power abuse from the parents on their child, which, by the way, is not their role.
I'd like to say that a child who feels attraction for someone who exceeded the majority is not a rape of any kind and that is not pedophilia either. Therefore don't be shocked when a child loves someone older, why he could not ?
We have trending to forget that a child can feel the love all as us. Pedophilia is when an adult abuses of his power to get a sexual relationship with a child. Although my own opinion about sexual relationships between a child and an adult is not the same because I can understand that at 13, we can want to have one. But I don't want to convince people about that, already if they admit that a child can feel love for someone older, we'll have maked a big step forward.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging the pedophilia, I'm understanding a child can feel the love and desires.

ok i can understand parent and daugher/son relationship being illegal, as that is also pedophilia. but what about brother and sister relationship, where no one is taking advantage/abusing the other

DamnImGood · May 2nd 2012, 11:37pm

Linda wrote:

Someone is holding a gun to your head and you didn't say "no don't shoot me". Its okay you get shot though, because you never said no. I honestly can't even be bothered to have a conversation with someone who thinks its not rape if she doesn't say no. The ignorance that you're emitting is pathetic.

Just so I understand what you're saying... if I were to meet a girl at a party, things went well, got hot and heavy and we went back to her place, she ripped off my clothes, jumped on me and fucked my brains out... she would be full within her rights to cry rape because she didn't actually say yes?

RDCF wrote:

obviously, when that's your starting point, legalizing incest, saying there's no problem with cheating and divorce etc... is just the next step.

This is a very fallacious argument. Incest has nothing to do with divorce or cheating.

CocaineCowboy wrote:

Incest should not be legalized and for one main reason, gene mutations.

Your genes are always mutating. That's part of how evolution works, but anyway...

The likelihood of having a "mutated baby" is actually not as high as people think. But regardless, incest doesn't always have to end in pregnancy. It's just sex except with a blood relative. Do you always get a girl pregnant when you have sex with her? Obviously not, so why does incest have to result in a pregnancy?

Le Roi Lion wrote:

I'll just say that homosexuality is not a disease and never will be, whereas incest well might be a disease.

I suggest you look up the definition of what a disease is because incest does not qualify.

Le Roi Lion wrote:

incest is a power abuse from the parents on their child, which, by the way, is not their role.

Incest doesn't have to involve children. Even a father/mother-daughter/son relationship can be between two adults.

Le Roi Lion wrote:

Pedophilia is when an adult abuses of his power to get a sexual relationship with a child.

No, pedophilia is the preference to be sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An adult who abuses his power to get in a sexual relationship with a child is just an adult being an asshole.

Papa Bear wrote:

ok i can understand parent and daugher/son relationship being illegal, as that is also pedophilia.

It doesn't have to be. See two responses above.

Papa Bear · May 3rd 2012, 7:57pm

DamnImGood wrote:

Incest doesn't have to involve children. Even a father/mother-daughter/son relationship can be between two adults.

yeah you're right, i dunno why when i thought of parent-son/daughter relationship i thought of an adult and a child, but as long as it's two adults consenting, i support it

Jordan132 · May 3rd 2012, 11:45pm

Why are you so passionately supporting incest?

...sends out the wrong message guy.

Papa Bear · May 4th 2012, 12:40am

Jordan132 wrote:

Why are you so passionately supporting incest?

...sends out the wrong message guy.

"passionately supporting" :lol:

I'm just picking a side

What inspired me to make the thread though was when a fag in one of my classes bashed on incest like it's the grossest/worst thing in the world.

DamnImGood · May 4th 2012, 1:02am

Papa Bear wrote:

What inspired me to make the thread though was when a fag in one of my classes bashed on incest like it's the grossest/worst thing in the world.

Well it is pretty disgusting, but it should still be legal. I just won't partake in it.

Jordan132 · May 4th 2012, 1:34am

okay perhaps not "passionately supporting" but ive remembered several threads in the past that you've spoken out about.

but back on topic with the thread i believe Incest shouldnt become as socially acceptable and legal as gay marriage is becoming.

im in support of gay marriage because i find nothing wrong with them getting married, being gay isnt a choice nor is it against the law so why should there be a law not allowing them to marry.

I am however against incest being legalized despite it being legal for cousins to marry through some of the united states i think that even without the social and society taboo of it i dont really see any instances of it being acceptable. despite how surprisingly common ive recently read about siblings or cousins experimenting at a young age i still believe that its something that should continue to be illegal, frowned upon and shunned even though theres really no risk of genetic abnormalities theres 6 billion people in the world. find someone that didnt come out of the same womb.

Ari Gold · May 4th 2012, 1:56am

Papa Bear wrote:

What inspired me to make the thread though was when a fag in one of my classes bashed on incest like it's the grossest/worst thing in the world.

Eh I'm not sure if personally I could find something more disgusting. Maybe something involving feces? That's about it though.

DamnImGood wrote:

Well it is pretty disgusting, but it should still be legal. I just won't partake in it.

It shouldn't be legal. We do not need more retarded kids in the world. Incest can lead to inbred kids and inbred kids have a much higher rate of fucked up health problems.

RDCF · May 4th 2012, 12:10pm

Papa Bear wrote:

I'm having trouble understanding your post. Just to be clear, you're against incest because it compromises the traditional family values?

Correct.

How will it compromise this? the heterosexual couple is seen on the article, (only exception is that they're actually brother and sister, but the couple of kids and no cheating is still in place

since incest prohibition is one of the most basic family values sure it wil compromise it.

This is just a slippery slope.

actually i was describing the current consequences of this attitude, not the possible future ones.

kinda irrelevant to incest, but here we go...
divorce - some people talk like divorce is the end of the world and the end of a happy child but that's not all true. yeah no one really wants their parents to divorce, but sometimes it's better than enduring a hostile environment all the time at home.
negative population growth - others argue that the earth is becoming overpopulated and might soon reach it's carrying-capacity, so depending how you look at it, this is also not as bad

divorce - i don't reject the concept of divorce, i'm not catholic. but i say that divorce became the first option to go with too frequently. of course there are many cases when divorce is neccesary, but i think there are much more cases when less ego and some family therapy (i hope it's the right term) is much better for anyone involved. and i think one of the causes of the very high divorce rates today (iirc, 60% in Scandinavia) is the deteroriation in the family values importance level.
negative population growth - you would have been right if the negative growth was a global phenomenon, but it's actually limited to a very specific group of people: white people in Europe, Japan and the US. so when poor areas in the third world are overpopulating, the situation in those countries is the opposite: less people in general, more old retired people and less young working people to support them. in the end, it might cause an economical catastrophe.

if your statement of "they could have picked a normal partner" stands, then it could also apply to homosexual couples, they too, could have picked a "normal partner"

but see it's not as easy that. you can't really pick and chose who you fall in love with. when you fall in love you fall in love, and you can't force yourself to love someone that you don't

homosexuals can't pick a regular partner, they have no sexual interest in women and it's impossible to force them to be monks all their lives. incest people, on the other hand, can find other partner they would be able to fulfill all their desires with. what would you say if a 30 years old man would claim that he fell in love with a 13 years old girl? in that case would you also let him marry her because he can't force himself to choose someone else? there are cases when the society needs are more important and can push aside one's wishes.

aside from the point that homosexual is total opposite of traditional marriage and family values, why shouldn't they be able to adopt? they can probably offer a child more love and care than what they would receive in an adoption center

i think the society should be based on the classic family stracture, and it is supposed to be clear that this is the way to raise children and to live in general. letting homosexual couples adopt children (assuming a homosexual couple would be able to fulfill the psychological duty of a mother and father, as a child needs, even though they're both males. which i doubt) would really damage achieving that goal, that i consider very important.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

DamnImGood wrote:

This is a very fallacious argument. Incest has nothing to do with divorce or cheating.

there's no a direct connection, but as i said above, it shares the same ideological background.

Manny · May 4th 2012, 6:40pm

Papa Bear wrote:

What inspired me to make the thread though was when a fag in one of my classes bashed on incest like it's the grossest/worst thing in the world.

Well it's pretty high on the list jr

Papa Bear · May 4th 2012, 7:21pm

Immortal Technique wrote:

It shouldn't be legal. We do not need more retarded kids in the world.

We could do what nazi Germany did and sterilize everyone with disabilities to reduce the risks of having children with disabilities, and kill off the ones who are already born. Perfect race reportin' in

Immortal Technique wrote:

Incest can lead to inbred kids and inbred kids have a much higher rate of fucked up health problems.

And obese people can lead to obese kids and obese kids have a much higher rate of fucked up health problems.

vigilante wrote:

Well it's pretty high on the list jr

So were gays considered like 50 years ago, if not ask my grandma

Jordan132 · May 5th 2012, 1:14am

Papa Bear wrote:

We could do what nazi Germany did and sterilize everyone with disabilities to reduce the risks of having children with disabilities, and kill off the ones who are already born. Perfect race reportin' in

And obese people can lead to obese kids and obese kids have a much higher rate of fucked up health problems.

So were gays considered like 50 years ago, if not ask my grandma

How can you make a comparison to nazi germany? how is not condoning incest somehow condoning the implementation of the master race?

I dont understand how not supporting inbreeding to sterilizing the fat and disabled. I mean you talk a lot of Support for incest but would you commit incest? would you be okay hearing that your friend is fucking his sister?

There shouldnt be a comparison Homosexuality and incest because Homosexuality cant be helped, its just who they are whereas incest can be helped and prevented easily by just avoiding the person and literally go out looking for some other of the 6 billion people that you arent related to.

by nature you SHOULD love your family, you SHOULD love your mother, father, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles grandparents unconditionally but under no circumstances should you be IN love with them. these are the people that raised you from birth, the people that trust you and expect you to always be there for them. yes its natural to love them but unless its a nuclear holocaust and you're trapped in a small room with them for the rest of your life that should be the end of it. If you find yourself looking a little too long at your sister that should be your first and only sign to go the fuck away and find someone else.

If incest was legalized sure all it would do for the first couple decades would garner disgusted looks and shame, but after a generation of inbreeding, and maybe another generation of inbreeding then you start seeing the signs of abnormalities and issues which is why legalizing it should never happen.

But jerry by your mentality why not legalize Bestiality as well? i mean if Incest
is no different than being homosexual and you believe it should be legalized
and you see no problem with people fucking their family members why not bestiality too? If a brother can fuck his sister why not not be proud of little Suzie getting mounted by the neighborhood schnauzer?

The point jerry is a line has to be drawn. and despite cultural differences and the various laws and regulations around the world there are some things that you just DONT DO.

DamnImGood · May 5th 2012, 1:38am

ITT: People who are unable to separate fucking from kids or love.

Papa Bear · May 5th 2012, 10:29am

Jordan132 wrote:

How can you make a comparison to nazi germany? how is not condoning incest somehow condoning the implementation of the master race?

I'm not comparing not condoning incest to nazi germany. I'm comparing not condoning incest because of risk for disabled children to nazi germany.

Imagine if we were to also prohibit people with disabilities, or anyone who had a higher risk of producing disabled offspring to have sex.

Jordan132 wrote:

I dont understand how not supporting inbreeding to sterilizing the fat and disabled. I mean you talk a lot of Support for incest but would you commit incest? would you be okay hearing that your friend is fucking his sister?

no I would not commit it, and i would probably be creeped out if I saw anyone actually doing this in real life.

However not everyone who supports homosexuals is gonna go ahead and do the acts themselves. supporting doesn't mean you'll engage in it

Jordan132 wrote:

There shouldnt be a comparison Homosexuality and incest because Homosexuality cant be helped, its just who they are whereas incest can be helped and prevented easily by just avoiding the person and literally go out looking for some other of the 6 billion people that you arent related to.

by nature you SHOULD love your family, you SHOULD love your mother, father, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles grandparents unconditionally but under no circumstances should you be IN love with them. these are the people that raised you from birth, the people that trust you and expect you to always be there for them. yes its natural to love them but unless its a nuclear holocaust and you're trapped in a small room with them for the rest of your life that should be the end of it. If you find yourself looking a little too long at your sister that should be your first and only sign to go the fuck away and find someone else.

I'm arguing that you shouldn't have to. If you really fell in love with a relative you should be able to express it freely and not hide it/supress those feelings to force yourself to fall in love with "the right/appropriate person" (as long as they're consenting adults)

Jordan132 wrote:

If incest was legalized sure all it would do for the first couple decades would garner disgusted looks and shame, but after a generation of inbreeding, and maybe another generation of inbreeding then you start seeing the signs of abnormalities and issues which is why legalizing it should never happen.

if we were to legalize it, most people still won't partake in it. As Morgan said, most organisms have shown to have something in us to avoid mating with a relative. So the whole thing would still be a minority.

And ok as DIG said, partaking in incest doesn't automatically mean you'll have kids

Jordan132 wrote:

But jerry by your mentality why not legalize Bestiality as well? i mean if Incest is no different than being homosexual and you believe it should be legalized and you see no problem with people fucking their family members why not bestiality too? If a brother can fuck his sister why not not be proud of little Suzie getting mounted by the neighborhood schnauzer?

you must not have seen the post where i said "as long as it's consenting adults" I support it. As others have said in like the first page, animals can't consent.

Jordan132 wrote:

The point jerry is a line has to be drawn. and despite cultural differences and the various laws and regulations around the world there are some things that you just DONT DO.

Let's push the line back a little bit some more. After all, that line has been pushed back quite a few times already. I know engaging in interracial dating was once seen as like the worst thing you could do here in America. It was something you simply just DIDN'T DO. then it was the homosexual line that was crossed. It wouldn't hurt to push the line back some more

Jordan132 · May 5th 2012, 10:23pm

but again with your way of thinking you're basically saying "hey i dont condone it, i wouldnt do it nor would i approve of anyone doing it but 50 years from now incest is going to be as common place as homosexuality and interracial dating so why not allow people to fuck their family members.

except its the opposite incest was a hell of a lot more common a long time ago especially in Royalty and nobility to "preserve the blood line" but now that people are more aware of the possible repercussions from it people are more strict and against that sort of thing. and i realize two family members having sex wont automatically mean they'll have children. but its more so the possibility that they might have children, or they might fall in love as well as what that would end up doing to their family.

but like you said legalizing it probably wouldnt end up with a GIANT influx of cousin fuckers. but if you dont think the amount would increase why legalize it at all?

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