do you think things that happen in your life are already destined to be that way, or do you think that you are the author of your own destiny? 
[SIZE=3]if i knew you were an organ grinder, i wouldn't have given you my heart. [/SIZE]
of fate, and destiny.
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Perhaps we make our choices for our own life, leading it along, guiding it. And we are the only ones in full control of our lifes.
Perhaps we're just in the delusion we have control, but in all reality, we're the pawns, we're just going according to plan. Doomed to never do something of our own accord. Never to dance along the gods. To sit along, playing along, dancing on our own, hoping to please and avoid tomatoes.
Stop being a pawn. :\She kept lookin' at her watch (Doesn't matter; had sex)
But I cried the whole time (Doesn't matter; had sex)
I think she might've been a racist (Doesn't matter; had sex)
She put a bag on my head (Still counts) -
We have our own free will. We are in charge of our lives. We can live it the way it was meant to be lived, or we can screw it up. It is our choice.
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Both, in my opinion.
Not always.
Things happen the way they do for a reason, or maybe work out differently because of US, how we lead it. -
tessa_s212 wrote:
We have our own free will. We are in charge of our lives. We can live it the way it was meant to be lived, or we can screw it up. It is our choice.
Have you ever read anything on Skinner's experiments? Pavlovs?
I suggest atleast reading an overview of some work of theirs or similiar work in those areas. It makes for a very good mental exercise contemplating the points they bring. -
Pavlov had to do with dogs and having them respond when the bell was rung.
I hardly think that has anything to do with humans, nothing like that would happen to us unless someone completely brain washed us or something.
Or have anything to do with fate or destiny, it's what ends up happening in your life, not what is controlled for you. -
zork1 wrote:
Have you ever read anything on Skinner's experiments? Pavlovs?
I suggest atleast reading an overview of some work of theirs or similiar work in those areas. It makes for a very good mental exercise contemplating the points they bring.
I am a dog trainer. I'd sure hope I'd know a little something about Pavlov and Skinner. And I can't understand what in the world your point is with that comment. What does the learning theory/operant conditioning got to do with destiny or fate? -
clovertune wrote:
and hey what about the skinner's experiments?
Skinner was the guy that basically came up with operant conditioning, defining reinforcement schedules and things of the like. Hes also known for radical behaviorism, which basically suggests everything is predertimined. Our actions are pre set due to our behavior from our genetics and the operant conditioning going on around us at any moment of the day. -
tessa_s212 wrote:
I am a dog trainer. I'd sure hope I'd know a little something about Pavlov and Skinner. And I can't understand what in the world your point is with that comment. What does the learning theory/operant conditioning got to do with destiny or fate?
tessa_s212 wrote:
Skinner was the guy that basically came up with operant conditioning, defining reinforcement schedules and things of the like. Hes also known for radical behaviorism, which basically suggests everything is predertimined. Our actions are pre set due to our behavior from our genetics and the operant conditioning going on around us at any moment of the day.
Thank you for answering your own question; it makes my life so much easier -
zork1 wrote:
Thank you for answering your own question; it makes my life so much easier
I apologize for my question. Whenever I think about Pavlov or Skinner it is in relation or about the learning theory. I did not think at first that Skinner was known for other things as well. Eh, its what ya get from being a dog trainer. -
tessa_s212 wrote:
I apologize for my question. Whenever I think about Pavlov or Skinner it is in relation or about the learning theory. I did not think at first that Skinner was known for other things as well. Eh, its what ya get from being a dog trainer.
One of the many fun things about life is that we get to learn so much! There was nothing wrong with your question. -
clovertune wrote:
so destiny can be violated issit?
like, i can exercise my free will and kill myself now,violating my destiny to live till 100 yr old for example.
or has it been destined that i will lose my mind and commit suicide now?
and hey what about the skinner's experiments?
Where you end is your destiny. It cannot be violated because it's end is where you were meant to be. Nothing is predetermined. -
To quote Robert Frost...
"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth.
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same.
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
This poem is not about individuality and picking a path in life. It satirises human nature. "I'll go back and try the other way later." But we never do.
It doesn't matter what we choose to do in life, you can't start again, and one decision influences so many others/cancels so many others that there is no point in being pedantic about it.
Just live life how you want to. Do what you want to, and if you don't know, then try a fuck load of stuff out.[CENTER][SIZE=1][SIGPIC]http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=banksy10243ee2.jpg[/SIGPIC]
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[SIZE=2]It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
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I believe free will is possible...however, I do NOT believe most people exhibit free will. I believe most people are little puppets on a string, people are actually quite easy to manipulate with the right words, 'successful' politicians could easily affirm that.
Though this needs elaboration, it is not so simple. One degree of fate is 'You WILL be in this place at this time' -- that may be true sometimes, I think it is.
A second degree of fate is 'You will choose to be in this place at this time'. That is a bit more complex, because they are 'choosing'. But really, they choose based on their own personality, previous experiences and ideas concerning various things such as the place or time. That is, the environment into which they were born affects their choices...therefore we cannot TRULY say it is free will, it is much more in the realm of fate.
Finally, there are those few who will choose to change their ideas, personalities etc. Now, initially these people make those choices based on past events (a form of fate) but once they have changed their personality, ideas etc...then how they react is based on how they changed themselves. Changing personality is certainly possible, one can become charitable rather than what they once were...greedy etc. This I know, because I have changed such things in Me and so have many others. -- I think this is the FIRST step to actualizing REAL Free Will.
But just because someone 'chooses' to do something, doesn't make it free will, as their choices are previously affected. If someone wants free will, they must first choose to change themselves (which is rather in the realm of fate)
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