kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
Covid Vaccine
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kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
What if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ? -
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
What if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?
Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after. -
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.
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Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.
But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.
So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.
So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago. -
Snowfox wrote:
Aspen wrote:
TLogical reason is that governments are using this virus as reason to strip your freedoms away and most people dont want to be free. Most people actually long to be slaves.
Snowfox wrote:
People worship according to their religion. And those who claim to have no religion lie. Their religion is State itself.
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Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
-
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
-
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
And all the waiting time between testing phases. These bits were sped up.
And Phase 1 and 2 were done simultaneously.
But the testing phases themselves took their regular time.
Long term evaluation (Phase 4) always occurs after approval by the health agencies (FDA, ECDC, etc.). Phase 4 is during public use.
That happens with all kinds of medication. -
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.
But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.
So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.
So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.
Though I do wonder if one can be in their right state of mind and have a hair cut like Boris Johnson...
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ? -
We're all screwed
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I'm pretty sure you can see all those white patches on the not vaccinated. Each is a pocket of fluid stopping oxygen being transferred from the lungs to the blood stream. And that to some degree happens in everyone. Old or elite athlete
Good Friend Kinda Romantic Ready to Rock
"If you try to follow fashion you'll always be chasing, and probably never catch it. If you be yourself and make your own style, fashion might just bump into you one day." -
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.
So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.
So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?
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Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.
So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.
So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?
Lots of people that survided still got very sick. They had to have time off work, spend time in the hospital, be placed under a coma to be intubated...
Even people that got less sick still had very bad effects: pain, fevers, loss of sense of smell and taste...
And many people still have effects many months after infection, such as loss of breath and of the sense of smell and taste. -
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.
So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.
So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?
That's kind of the whole point of science.
So yes, the reasonable thing to do is to believe that they know what they are doing and not the 'no high degreed scientist' on the internet... -
Aspen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
Ryzen wrote:
Starlord wrote:
kmcd wrote:
If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.
If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.
If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.
Bingo.
COVID-19 is not a brand new thing. It's similar to other coronaviruses. When these vaccines were created, scientists didn't go in blind, as they already had a roadmap based off prior coronaviruses. -
This is so wrong on so many levels that I have to answer this.
Starlord wrote:
I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anything
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that but I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
Then time passed. More data accumulated about the length of time vaccines were top efficient. And also, Omicron came. Scientists adjusted their answer to a situation that was very different from a few months prior.
And scientists cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy. They can estimate trends, give directions with some level of accuracy, but that's never going to be perfect. So they estimated the ideal delay between doses to be 6 months. Then, when initial data came back, they say 5 was better. So what? It isn't a massive difference and it was expected, given how imprecise current knowledge of the virus still is.
So, are you mocking scientists because they are adapting their message to a new situation? Because they took into account the new data collected? You understand that questioning established theories in light of up-to-date data is precisely what any serious scientist is supposed to do.
So, are you blaming scientists to do their job properly? Or is that just because they weren't astrologists?
Since you got "brain and eyes", tell us then what they should have said and done instead, please.
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine,
Yet you'd reject that solution baselessly, condemning those 2%?
And there is another problem in your reasoning: who are those 2%? Can you tell me, with absolute accuracy, who will die and who won't? Sure, thzre are probabilities: your risk is lower if you are younger. But lower doesn't mean zero.
You also ignore the fact that many people who got Covid survive but with long lasting consequences on their health. What about them? Should we consider their condition an irrelevant? Don't you think it is important to prevent those as well?
and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
Science says that by vaccinating everybody, you'd roughly kill 1 person per million due to side effects. That's less than 10 deaths for countries like UK of France. Yet you consider that a higher risk than letting Covid spread around freely? Tell me again how many people died from it in your country? It is more than 10, I think?
So what is your issue with vaccinating everybody, if not politics?
Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?
Or maybe you mean you don't want to get vaccinated as a protest over their exploitation of the population? That's a noble sacrifice. But then, I guess you don't own a smartphone, don't wear jeans and reject gifts bought online? Yeah, sure.
So, your points boil down to:
- Scientists are stupid, I can see things they can't;
- Politics want to reduce my freedom;
- Pharma industry is greedy.
The problem is: none of those points make vaccines dangerous or useless. So, now, what makes them dangerous again?
I'm sorry for what looks like a long rant, but I've fought such stupid claims for months in debunking groups, and it gets tiring to see them come back again and again. -
dolphinsword wrote:
This is so wrong on so many levels that I have to answer this.
Starlord wrote:
I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anything
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that but I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol
And scientists cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy. They can estimate trends, give directions with some level of accuracy, but that's never going to be perfect. So they estimated the ideal delay between doses to be 6 months. Then, when initial data came back, they say 5 was better. So what? It isn't a massive difference and it was expected, given how imprecise current knowledge of the virus still is.
So, are you mocking scientists because they are adapting their message to a new situation? Because they took into account the new data collected? You understand that questioning established theories in light of up-to-date data is precisely what any serious scientist is supposed to do.
So, are you blaming scientists to do their job properly? Or is that just because they weren't astrologists?
Since you got "brain and eyes", tell us then what they should have said and done instead, please.
Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine,
Yet you'd reject that solution baselessly, condemning those 2%?
And there is another problem in your reasoning: who are those 2%? Can you tell me, with absolute accuracy, who will die and who won't? Sure, thzre are probabilities: your risk is lower if you are younger. But lower doesn't mean zero.
You also ignore the fact that many people who got Covid survive but with long lasting consequences on their health. What about them? Should we consider their condition an irrelevant? Don't you think it is important to prevent those as well?
and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont
Science says that by vaccinating everybody, you'd roughly kill 1 person per million due to side effects. That's less than 10 deaths for countries like UK of France. Yet you consider that a higher risk than letting Covid spread around freely? Tell me again how many people died from it in your country? It is more than 10, I think?
So what is your issue with vaccinating everybody, if not politics?
Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?
Or maybe you mean you don't want to get vaccinated as a protest over their exploitation of the population? That's a noble sacrifice. But then, I guess you don't own a smartphone, don't wear jeans and reject gifts bought online? Yeah, sure.
So, your points boil down to:
- Scientists are stupid, I can see things they can't;
- Politics want to reduce my freedom;
- Pharma industry is greedy.
The problem is: none of those points make vaccines dangerous or useless. So, now, what makes them dangerous again?
I'm sorry for what looks like a long rant, but I've fought such stupid claims for months in debunking groups, and it gets tiring to see them come back again and again.
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Im not gonna bother to read all that up there, but i got both mine abit late oct-nov and im too young to get mine in my country right now and got my two later.
Ps: Get the vaccine it protects others as simple as thatBored 24/7 feel free to pm whenever -
musicalguy wrote:
Im not gonna bother to read all that up there, but i got both mine abit late oct-nov and im too young to get mine in my country right now and got my two later.
Ps: Get the vaccine it protects others as simple as that
musicalguy wrote:
Ps: Get the vaccine it protects others as simple as that
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