Covid Vaccine

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinated
What if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.
Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Snowfox wrote:

Aspen wrote:

TLogical reason is that governments are using this virus as reason to strip your freedoms away and most people dont want to be free. Most people actually long to be slaves.

Snowfox wrote:

People worship according to their religion. And those who claim to have no religion lie. Their religion is State itself.

that not logical or what’s happeningThat’s just conservative conspiracy end of the world fantasy nonsense

Any proof?

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Where did you get the idea that it taked years to develop a new vaccine? Developing a new vaccine technology obviously taked years, ofc. But once the tech is there, it is (relatively) fast to adapt it to similar viruses. Flu vaccines are adapted each year to new flu variants without them being 'rushed'.
The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.

But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.

So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.

So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Where did you get the idea that it taked years to develop a new vaccine? Developing a new vaccine technology obviously taked years, ofc. But once the tech is there, it is (relatively) fast to adapt it to similar viruses. Flu vaccines are adapted each year to new flu variants without them being 'rushed'.The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.

But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.

So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.

So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.

I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anythingThough I do wonder if one can be in their right state of mind and have a hair cut like Boris Johnson...
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol

Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont

There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Where did you get the idea that it taked years to develop a new vaccine? Developing a new vaccine technology obviously taked years, ofc. But once the tech is there, it is (relatively) fast to adapt it to similar viruses. Flu vaccines are adapted each year to new flu variants without them being 'rushed'.The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.

But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.

So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.

So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.

I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anythingThough I do wonder if one can be in their right state of mind and have a hair cut like Boris Johnson...
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol

Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont

There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

Where did you get the idea that it taked years to develop a new vaccine? Developing a new vaccine technology obviously taked years, ofc. But once the tech is there, it is (relatively) fast to adapt it to similar viruses. Flu vaccines are adapted each year to new flu variants without them being 'rushed'.The reason for long delays are that many tests are needed to sort out all possible side effects and evaluate things like efficiency or endurance. Obviously, one cannot tell if a vaccine is still efficient after three years without observing it for three years. And if a side effect happens once every million injections, you need lots of tests during a long period to find them. That's exactly why there is normally a years-long test period.

But in the case if covid vaccine? At this point, side effects are probably very well known, given that billion of people got a shot by now. And efficiency is monitored real-time.

So how exactly are you a 'guinea pig' at this point? Because you have the belief that it isn't possible to make a safe product in such a short time? But technology does not operate on popular beliefs, it works thanks to physics, biology, chemistry. It doesn't require public opinion to demonstrate it is working, there are tests and statistics to do that. And it doesn't operate on fringe science being spewed out on social networks, either.

So again, what makes you think you'd be a 'guinea pig' at this stage? I'll make a guess: your point isn't scientific, it is politic. You don't like your country government, you believe newspapers are used to manipulate information, and medical industry cares only about making money, and so on. All that could be true or false, it is irrelevant, as vaccines don't care if Putin jails and kills opponents, if Emmanual Macron is a manipulative egomaniac or if Boris Johnson is a corrupt manipulator that killed his hairdresser years ago.

I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anythingThough I do wonder if one can be in their right state of mind and have a hair cut like Boris Johnson...
I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that
But I have a brain and eyes
What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol

Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine, and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont

There is no politic point in all that, it's just facts. Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?

Aspen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

Ryzen wrote:

Starlord wrote:

kmcd wrote:

If you don't get the vaccine, you could die of COVID-19.

If you do get the vaccine, you could get a lesser form of COVID and probably have a sore arm for a few days. The odds are great that you won't die.

If you take the "what's the worst that could happen" situation from either side, the worst situation of not being vaccinated seems to be far worse than getting vaccinated.

You also have a lot of chances to NOT develop a serious form without being vaccinatedWhat if in 5 years it turns out that this vaccine causes serious heart problems or malformations on babies or renders sterile ?

That works both ways. What if in 5 years it turns out that covid causes serious heart problems, malformations on babies or renders sterile? We already know that 'long covid' is something real, after all, and there are many diseases that have very long term nasty consequences that are visible years after initial infection.Oh, and how many vaccines so far did have such nasty effects like those you describe happening years after injection? All I've heard so far were effects happening shortly after it, not years after.

I agree, but usually it takes years to create vaccines, test them and adjust them. There is a reason for that. this one was created in less than a year, so it is still experimental and we are the cobayes

The difference is they already had research and vaccines for this kind of virus made, just like how they have a new flu shot each year that’s based on the latest flu strains not just the same one as the year before - that and they’ve had insane amounts of money thrown at them

Starlord wrote:

I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anything

dolphinsword wrote:

This is so wrong on so many levels that I have to answer this.

Starlord wrote:

I dont give a crap about politics, I am not anti-government, or anti-anything

Well, let's see if your thoughts follow your mouth!

I am no politician, and I'm no high degreed scientist, I admit that but I have a brain and eyes

Good. So you then must admit two things: that scientists and politics, too, have brains and eyes, and are able to use them just as you are. And second, they are experts in their own domains, so they are able to use data in ways you (or I) can't. It doesn't make them 'more intelligent' than you, but at least 'as intelligent, better informed, and more likely to give accurate answers' than you.

What my eyes see is that your scientists said the vaccine is efficient for real with 2 doses.
Then they said, hmmm 3 doses. 3rd dose 6 months after the second. Then they said 5 months. Now they say between 3 and 4. And you want me to believe they know what they're doing ? Lol

It shows you are totally ignoring the timing. When they said that two doses were sufficient, Alpha (1nd then Delta) was dominant. What they said back then was true.Then time passed. More data accumulated about the length of time vaccines were top efficient. And also, Omicron came. Scientists adjusted their answer to a situation that was very different from a few months prior.

And scientists cannot predict the future with 100% accuracy. They can estimate trends, give directions with some level of accuracy, but that's never going to be perfect. So they estimated the ideal delay between doses to be 6 months. Then, when initial data came back, they say 5 was better. So what? It isn't a massive difference and it was expected, given how imprecise current knowledge of the virus still is.

So, are you mocking scientists because they are adapting their message to a new situation? Because they took into account the new data collected? You understand that questioning established theories in light of up-to-date data is precisely what any serious scientist is supposed to do.

So, are you blaming scientists to do their job properly? Or is that just because they weren't astrologists?

Since you got "brain and eyes", tell us then what they should have said and done instead, please.

Also what my eyes see is that covid is deadly in like 2% of cases, which means 98% didn't need a vaccine,

Ah, that's showing a lot of empathy to the endangered 2%. Scientists are saying that to protect those 2%, you have to take a medecine that is generally harmless (I say 'generally' because no medecine is 100% safe ever).
Yet you'd reject that solution baselessly, condemning those 2%?

And there is another problem in your reasoning: who are those 2%? Can you tell me, with absolute accuracy, who will die and who won't? Sure, thzre are probabilities: your risk is lower if you are younger. But lower doesn't mean zero.

You also ignore the fact that many people who got Covid survive but with long lasting consequences on their health. What about them? Should we consider their condition an irrelevant? Don't you think it is important to prevent those as well?

and yet governments want to vaccinate everyone and penalize those who dont

Yet you claim that there is no politic point in all that? What is it then? Where lies the problem of vaccinating everybody, if not politics?
Science says that by vaccinating everybody, you'd roughly kill 1 person per million due to side effects. That's less than 10 deaths for countries like UK of France. Yet you consider that a higher risk than letting Covid spread around freely? Tell me again how many people died from it in your country? It is more than 10, I think?

So what is your issue with vaccinating everybody, if not politics?

Just like the fact that pharma industry grosses millions of dollars. What did you think ? That they are working for free ?

So what? Welcome to capitalism. That has to do with social justice, but not with vaccine efficiency. Since when paying the pharma industry makes their products unusable?
Or maybe you mean you don't want to get vaccinated as a protest over their exploitation of the population? That's a noble sacrifice. But then, I guess you don't own a smartphone, don't wear jeans and reject gifts bought online? Yeah, sure.

So, your points boil down to:
- Scientists are stupid, I can see things they can't;
- Politics want to reduce my freedom;
- Pharma industry is greedy.

The problem is: none of those points make vaccines dangerous or useless. So, now, what makes them dangerous again?

I'm sorry for what looks like a long rant, but I've fought such stupid claims for months in debunking groups, and it gets tiring to see them come back again and again.

musicalguy wrote:

Im not gonna bother to read all that up there, but i got both mine abit late oct-nov and im too young to get mine in my country right now and got my two later.

Ps: Get the vaccine it protects others as simple as that

musicalguy wrote:

Ps: Get the vaccine it protects others as simple as that