Is The United States and the EU unwittingly paying for Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

    • Is The United States and the EU unwittingly paying for Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

      The United States and the EU are still buying energy products from Russia. This year the USA has imported millions of barrels of oil from Russia. The EU also imports oil and natural gas from Russia as well. This allows Putin to pay for his genocidal war against the Ukranian people with this blood money. Yes, the West has put sanctions on Russian banks, companies and oligarchs. But they haven't put any sanctions, so far, on the main Russian export, their petroleum products. If the West would have done from the first day of their invasion of Ukraine, the Russian economy would have collapse. Biden in his State Of The Union speech said nothing about this. Why? As long as Putin and the Russian military are being paid for their oil and natural gas by the West, he has no incentive to stop the rape of the Ukraine. We should embargo ALL Russian commercial and military interests wherever they are. This will stop the madman of Europe, Vladimir Putin, from bring the world to the brink of WWIII and maybe over the brink. The unfortunate thing in this mess is that we, the young people around the world, will have to fight, suffer and perhaps DIE because of the stupidity of the old Farts who rule the world and want to fulfill their Napoleonic dreams!
    • A couple of points:
      1. From what I have read and researched, the USA imports about 200,000 barrels a day from Russia. Which sounds like a lot, but is really less than 3% of imports and less than 1% of actual usage. I remember reading that this was already cut off, as USA ports refuse now to accept Russian ships including oil tankers. But losing 1% is not a big issue.
      2. Europe is a different issue. My country is less reliant on Russian oil/gas than most of Europe, but we still get more than 10% from them. So yes, Europe definitely is paying for part of this war, and the only way not to is to burn wood or freeze. There is no other supply, and no other infrastructure in place to get it. I suspect the time-of-year of this war was calculated, knowing that. The USA could ship it to us, perhaps. But they do not seem willing to drive up their own prices by doing so.
    • mentallychaotic wrote:

      A couple of points:
      1. From what I have read and researched, the USA imports about 200,000 barrels a day from Russia. Which sounds like a lot, but is really less than 3% of imports and less than 1% of actual usage. I remember reading that this was already cut off, as USA ports refuse now to accept Russian ships including oil tankers. But losing 1% is not a big issue.
      2. Europe is a different issue. My country is less reliant on Russian oil/gas than most of Europe, but we still get more than 10% from them. So yes, Europe definitely is paying for part of this war, and the only way not to is to burn wood or freeze. There is no other supply, and no other infrastructure in place to get it. I suspect the time-of-year of this war was calculated, knowing that. The USA could ship it to us, perhaps. But they do not seem willing to drive up their own prices by doing so.
      There is other supply. Coal, Browncoal and peat so please dont give us bullshit
    • Snowfox wrote:

      mentallychaotic wrote:

      A couple of points:
      1. From what I have read and researched, the USA imports about 200,000 barrels a day from Russia. Which sounds like a lot, but is really less than 3% of imports and less than 1% of actual usage. I remember reading that this was already cut off, as USA ports refuse now to accept Russian ships including oil tankers. But losing 1% is not a big issue.
      2. Europe is a different issue. My country is less reliant on Russian oil/gas than most of Europe, but we still get more than 10% from them. So yes, Europe definitely is paying for part of this war, and the only way not to is to burn wood or freeze. There is no other supply, and no other infrastructure in place to get it. I suspect the time-of-year of this war was calculated, knowing that. The USA could ship it to us, perhaps. But they do not seem willing to drive up their own prices by doing so.
      There is other supply. Coal, Browncoal and peat so please dont give us bullshit
      You will note that I said supply or infrastructure. The current infrastructure is for using gas for power, and although they could be reverted to coal, that would take months. And would require changes in law to allow coal, which would take weeks or months before reversion work could even begin.

      Edit to add: Also consider that my country is over 25% water. Coal creates a smoke/dust that falls into the water and then converts to mercury..... meaning that we would literally be poisoning ourselves. Actually poisoning our next several generations, more than ourselves. We could build - over a period of years - nuclear power reactors, but the status in Ukraine shows that is probably not a good idea. So yes, we can move away from petroleum, but it will take months and years to do so. Sadly, we have made little progress in this over the past decade even though we knew we should be doing so.

      I am not justifying our dependence on Russian petroleum and gas. I am just being realistic. Ideally, this could change quickly. But right now is a time for realism, not idealism. I do not think that it can be easily nor quickly changed realistically.
    • Snowfox wrote:

      There is other supply. Coal, Browncoal and peat so please dont give us bullshit
      :lol: your belief that that's viable is bs

      The pollution in the air would break laws from the mid 1800, when coal was widely used and the smog and bad health got to such a bad level that a clean air act was created. And the population has increased massively since then

      Coal produces less than 2% of UK electricity, compared to nearly 40% from gas. So not in any way possible to achieve the difference

      Then how are we going to mine and extract it. Coal (and other) mines closed because they weren't cost effective, any plans to reopen them hit that same probably. The cost of mining are to high for any company to afford. So who is going to mine something for a loss of money?
      Edit
      Good Friend :play: Kinda Romantic :love: Ready to Rock :zomg:
      “May little chicks and flowers bring into your life the joys of spring.”
    • BJade wrote:

      Snowfox wrote:

      There is other supply. Coal, Browncoal and peat so please dont give us bullshit
      :lol: your belief that that's viable is bs
      The pollution in the air would break laws from the mid 1800, when coal was widely used and the smog and bad health got to such a bad level that a clean air act was created. And the population has increased massively since then

      Coal produces less than 2% of UK electricity, compared to nearly 40% from gas. So not in any way possible to achieve the difference

      Then how are we going to mine and extract it. Coal (and other) mines closed because they weren't cost effective, any plans to reopen them hit that same probably. The cost of mining are to high for any company to afford. So who is going to mine something for a loss of money?
      Coal burning has improved its cleanliness by great deal. Coal is major way to produce energy in europe allready so no big difference.
      UK is thrid world nation when it comes to many technologies so maybe we should help since we can.... just call to finland or sweden or denmark we have cleaner tech solutions on the self.

      Coal price was in all time low when you shut down those mines back then 40 years ago as well as gas and oil was all time low.
      Peat coal and browncoal are allready extracted all around.
      ANd if you like gas Then turn coal or peat into gas

      Its not hard thing to do.
      FIscher and Trops synthesis is here and has been around for 100 years.
      Would help if UK wouldnt be technologically and mentally in 1600s
    • Snowfox wrote:

      Coal price was in all time low when you shut down those mines back then 40 years ago as well as gas and oil was all time low.
      The last deep coal mine in the UK closed on 18 December 2015 (40 years ago?)

      Theres plans to open a coal mine in Cumbria, announced in 2014 at a cost of £14.7 million. A further £200 million was projected to be spent in final testing, acquisition of rights and the implementation of the mine. The facility itself is expected to cost in the region of £165 million. The earliest date of full production is 3 years after in opens. So one mine producing 3 million tonnes would cost £400 million

      Coal production (Million tonnes)
      China 3,902.0
      Russia 399.8
      USA 484.7
      South Africa 248.3
      Germany 107.4
      Ukraine 24.1


      Snowfox wrote:

      Coal is major way to produce energy in europe allready so no big difference.

      Coal accounts for only 15-20% of European Union’s energy production (24% all solid fuels)

      Edit
      Good Friend :play: Kinda Romantic :love: Ready to Rock :zomg:
      “May little chicks and flowers bring into your life the joys of spring.”
    • I suppose there are many opinions on this subject. Most of which are impractical. The reality is that the only infrastructure in place is to receive gas from the east. Petrol also, but that seems less of an issue in my country because we all have bicycles.

      I think most people here would be willing to pay more for heat to avoid buying from Russia. But, the reality is that cutting the supply does not raise the price so much as it means No Gas, period.

      As to petrol/gasoline prices... Americans are unwilling to pay more, even though they already pay the lowest prices in the world. So it is unlikely they would be willing to divert either petrol (or crude oil or gas) to Europe to assist in cutting off Russian supplies. Even if they were willing, it would take months to work out the logistics.

      Gasoline/petrol prices right now where I live:
      €2/litre = approx $2.30USD/litre x 3.8 litres/gallon = $8.74 USD/gallon
      And yet, we are willing to pay more if it would help end the war. Are other countries willing to pay this price in order to assist the same goal? I suppose it depends on localised priorities, and no one seems willing to figure it out.

      I do agree that we should have been working on alternative methods of energy for many years. But we did not. And they cannot be created instantaneously, so at this point, that is not even a point of consideration in helping end the war.
    • D. Falcon_11 wrote:

      The United States and the EU are still buying energy products from Russia. This year the USA has imported millions of barrels of oil from Russia. The EU also imports oil and natural gas from Russia as well. This allows Putin to pay for his genocidal war against the Ukranian people with this blood money. Yes, the West has put sanctions on Russian banks, companies and oligarchs. But they haven't put any sanctions, so far, on the main Russian export, their petroleum products. If the West would have done from the first day of their invasion of Ukraine, the Russian economy would have collapse. Biden in his State Of The Union speech said nothing about this. Why? As long as Putin and the Russian military are being paid for their oil and natural gas by the West, he has no incentive to stop the rape of the Ukraine. We should embargo ALL Russian commercial and military interests wherever they are. This will stop the madman of Europe, Vladimir Putin, from bring the world to the brink of WWIII and maybe over the brink. The unfortunate thing in this mess is that we, the young people around the world, will have to fight, suffer and perhaps DIE because of the stupidity of the old Farts who rule the world and want to fulfill their Napoleonic dreams!
      We need petrol and gas from Russia, if we buy it that's because we need it...
      The solution is not sanctions, just send a bomb on the Kremlin
      Dont be afraid to come talk to me, I dont bite... :D
    • Vic2022 wrote:

      D. Falcon_11 wrote:

      The United States and the EU are still buying energy products from Russia. This year the USA has imported millions of barrels of oil from Russia. The EU also imports oil and natural gas from Russia as well. This allows Putin to pay for his genocidal war against the Ukranian people with this blood money. Yes, the West has put sanctions on Russian banks, companies and oligarchs. But they haven't put any sanctions, so far, on the main Russian export, their petroleum products. If the West would have done from the first day of their invasion of Ukraine, the Russian economy would have collapse. Biden in his State Of The Union speech said nothing about this. Why? As long as Putin and the Russian military are being paid for their oil and natural gas by the West, he has no incentive to stop the rape of the Ukraine. We should embargo ALL Russian commercial and military interests wherever they are. This will stop the madman of Europe, Vladimir Putin, from bring the world to the brink of WWIII and maybe over the brink. The unfortunate thing in this mess is that we, the young people around the world, will have to fight, suffer and perhaps DIE because of the stupidity of the old Farts who rule the world and want to fulfill their Napoleonic dreams!
      We need petrol and gas from Russia, if we buy it that's because we need it...The solution is not sanctions, just send a bomb on the Kremlin
      According to EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen, the EU is deciding to cut itself off from Russian oil and gas in response to Russian atrocities in Ukraine. Most of the countries in the EU support the ban with two exceptions, Slovakia and Hungary. If the EU Parliament votes to ban Russian fossil fuels, the ban will be fully in effect by the end of the year.

      Vic, I agree with your statement that sanctions won't work. For sanctions to really be effective the whole world must join in against Russia. But sadly China, India, Pakistan, and few other countries are supporting Russia. But I disagree with you that using the "bomb" on the Kremlin is a bad idea. That would provoke Russia to further escalate the war beyond Ukraine. It will be the real start of WWIII. Putin has already threatened UK with nuclear devastation.
    • D. Falcon_11 wrote:

      Vic2022 wrote:

      D. Falcon_11 wrote:

      The United States and the EU are still buying energy products from Russia. This year the USA has imported millions of barrels of oil from Russia. The EU also imports oil and natural gas from Russia as well. This allows Putin to pay for his genocidal war against the Ukranian people with this blood money. Yes, the West has put sanctions on Russian banks, companies and oligarchs. But they haven't put any sanctions, so far, on the main Russian export, their petroleum products. If the West would have done from the first day of their invasion of Ukraine, the Russian economy would have collapse. Biden in his State Of The Union speech said nothing about this. Why? As long as Putin and the Russian military are being paid for their oil and natural gas by the West, he has no incentive to stop the rape of the Ukraine. We should embargo ALL Russian commercial and military interests wherever they are. This will stop the madman of Europe, Vladimir Putin, from bring the world to the brink of WWIII and maybe over the brink. The unfortunate thing in this mess is that we, the young people around the world, will have to fight, suffer and perhaps DIE because of the stupidity of the old Farts who rule the world and want to fulfill their Napoleonic dreams!
      We need petrol and gas from Russia, if we buy it that's because we need it...The solution is not sanctions, just send a bomb on the Kremlin
      According to EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen, the EU is deciding to cut itself off from Russian oil and gas in response to Russian atrocities in Ukraine. Most of the countries in the EU support the ban with two exceptions, Slovakia and Hungary. If the EU Parliament votes to ban Russian fossil fuels, the ban will be fully in effect by the end of the year.
      Vic, I agree with your statement that sanctions won't work. For sanctions to really be effective the whole world must join in against Russia. But sadly China, India, Pakistan, and few other countries are supporting Russia. But I disagree with you that using the "bomb" on the Kremlin is a bad idea. That would provoke Russia to further escalate the war beyond Ukraine. It will be the real start of WWIII. Putin has already threatened UK with nuclear devastation.
      EU is useless. If all 27 countries united to go at war against Russia, Poutine wouldn't stand a chance. But EU doesn't do anything, it just watches and talks diplomacy and blah blah blah while Poutine acts. Poutine has the guts to say fuck NATO fuck EU, destroys an entire country and meanwhile all EU is doing is damaging its own economy with their so called sanctions
    • guts?

      Pootine is an old retarded fart.
      But due to the office he holds a dangerous fart on fire.
      It's no thing of "having the gut to say" when it comes from a crazy senile old guy.

      I lived almost 9 years with a old mostly senile person. They have no guts, but just speak out whats on theirs minds. But to be fair to my grandma, if she were in Bootine's office, the Russian air force would fly over Ukraine every day and drop bombs that, when exploding, would rain down tons of colored petals down to Ukraine. I'm certain, in the long run that would be annoying anyway. But at least she was a funny person to live with.