How Do You Feel About The War???

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      RedAlert wrote:

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but (from this Wikipedia.org article):

      "Great controversy emerged when no stockpiles of such weapons were found, leading to accusations that the United States, and in particular its President George W. Bush had deliberately inflated intelligence or lied about Iraq's weapons in order to justify an invasion of the country. While various leftover weapons components from the 1980s and 1990s have also been found, and most weapons inspectors do not now believe that the WMD program proceeded after 2002, though various theories continue to be put forward."

      Therefore, there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq.

      I can support the troops without supporting the war, and I damn sure don't have to support a president who's gotten us into this mess.



      You are correct. Not only are they in Saudia Arabia, they're also in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and Kenya (I got my info here).

      As far as I'm concerned, the truest threat to our nation was Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda. That's why I don't understand all this Iraq B.S.


      haha you know any one can put stuff on wikipedia its not a credible site, college proffesors, atleast the ones I know, won't even ook at papers with citations from it on the paper. But w/e, just thoguht i'd share that info with everyone. Any way back to the debate...
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]I'm just floating[/SIZE][/CENTER]
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      [CENTER][SIZE=1]From sinking down[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]Into sand.[/SIZE][/CENTER]
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    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Neo wrote:

      He might not be an idiot to you, seeing most Americans are stupid anyway so there aren't mush reference points. But to the rest of the world, he is laughably stupid.


      Actually, I know some very intelligent people (including myself. :D ) You assume so many things about me because I am American.

      Not that they had culture anyway.


      Speaking of laughably stupid...
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Floating.In.Sand. wrote:

      haha you know any one can put stuff on wikipedia its not a credible site, college proffesors, atleast the ones I know, won't even ook at papers with citations from it on the paper. But w/e, just thoguht i'd share that info with everyone. Any way back to the debate...


      If you would have read my other post, which you probably didn't, I said it is a known fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq when the search was conducted. I watched the news when this happened to see if they would find anything, and they didn't. I was merely using the Wikipedia.org article to back up what I was saying.

      And yes, I do know that anyone could go on there and write articles for it. But, I happen to trust that article because it was just confirmation of a known fact.

      And another thing: Did you even look at all of the sources that were cited in the Wikipedia article? There is a extensive amount (95 sources, to be exact), and I would consider that a well-researched article. Not only does it present the well-known fact that there were none found, but it also provides theories of the aftermath of the war. It seems like, to me, it was written objectively.

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Neo wrote:

      Well I can't be too sure of who is intelligent and who is stupid. For records FutureNavyMan isn't and I am sure of that.


      Would you back that up?


      And anything to back it up? Is there any American culture that you can point out?


      Sigh...

      culture, n.
      6. the ideas, customs, skills, arts, etc. of a given people in a given period; civilization.
      -Webster's New World Dictionary

      How *any* nation could not have their own ideas, customs, skills and arts after being around for two centuries is beyond me. It's sheer stupidity to insist, however much you may dislike a culture, that that culture plain doesn't exist. We are not total savages here in America and we do have cultural accomplishments however insignificant you may think they are.
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      godless_musician wrote:

      I will bother about him, thank you. He is not an idiot.


      I appreciate that. I will say this: just because someone it on the opposite side of a debate from you does not mean they're an idiot. Thank goodness for the "ignore" command, I must say. I swear by it sometimes, I'll admit.

      That said, I'm not eniterly sure where anyone could get the idea that the ACLU, or American Civil Liberties Union, does not support censorship. This is the group thats been attempting to get the bible banned from schools and various religous objects banned from public places! That is censorship to the letter!
      It is a sad day when an innocent nation's flag is decried as hate speech.

      If I say it, I believe it. Most of the time, anyway. :lol:

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      RedAlert wrote:

      If you would have read my other post, which you probably didn't, I said it is a known fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq when the search was conducted. I watched the news when this happened to see if they would find anything, and they didn't. I was merely using the Wikipedia.org article to back up what I was saying.

      And yes, I do know that anyone could go on there and write articles for it. But, I happen to trust that article because it was just confirmation of a known fact.

      And another thing: Did you even look at all of the sources that were cited in the Wikipedia article? There is a extensive amount (95 sources, to be exact), and I would consider that a well-researched article. Not only does it present the well-known fact that there were none found, but it also provides theories of the aftermath of the war. It seems like, to me, it was written objectively.

      im not saying what was said in the article was wrong or wasnt cited. I agree with you and all completely i just was saying that anyone can edit the article at any time even if it is a cited article. I mean that article was probably right and cited, i was just making point that the site isnt 100percent reliable. Any way you are right and i do apologize if what i said came out as an insult.
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]I'm just floating[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]Trying to keep my head above[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]From sinking down[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]Into sand.[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER] [/CENTER]

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      FutureNavyMan08 wrote:


      That said, I'm not eniterly sure where anyone could get the idea that the ACLU, or American Civil Liberties Union, does not support censorship. This is the group thats been attempting to get the bible banned from schools and various religous objects banned from public places! That is censorship to the letter!


      From *public* places, not from private owned places like a newspaper, television station, etc. It's not censorship, it's just honoring the establishment clause.

      If people were banned from publishing books expounding religion, that would be censorship. However banning public Christmas functions is simply honoring the separation of Church and State. This is not a "Christian nation", and whatever our contrived pledge may say it is not "one nation under God."

      I fully support the ACLU in their efforts to ensure that the government does not favor one religion over another, or religion to nonreligion.
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Neo wrote:


      And his snivelling attempts to offend me by using an American symbol.


      Why do you assume his avatar is intended to offend you?


      And spreading factually incorrect and inaccurate opinions masqueraded as truth is not a sign of high mental prowness either. Trying to convince members to be victims of illogical faith instead of reasoning clearly takes the cake. Three demerits.


      Nor is it a sign of stupidity; it is dishonesty, if anything. And since when are you the one who gets to dole out demerits?
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???


      He actually believes what he says which does not make him dishonest but makes him stupid. And that gives him the demerits.


      The worst kind of dishonesty is self-deceit but it still does not indicate stupidity, to my mind. I have deceived myself before (although I try not to) and it has always been in times of weakness, not of stupidity or even ignorance.

      From the way FutureNavyMan08 writes, whether or not his posts are factually true (as I said, I don't know), he seems intelligent.

      Anyway, this is all off topic; you either believe he's stupid or you don't. I doubt he cares what you think and I hardly care, so I'll stop wasting my time attacking your comment.
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Floating.In.Sand. wrote:

      im not saying what was said in the article was wrong or wasnt cited. I agree with you and all completely i just was saying that anyone can edit the article at any time even if it is a cited article. I mean that article was probably right and cited, i was just making point that the site isnt 100percent reliable. Any way you are right and i do apologize if what i said came out as an insult.


      Quite alright. You're right, there are probably a lot of douchebags that get on there and screw with things. But, if I use articles from there, I try and make sure that they have cited sources.

      I usually will go to other places before I resort to Wikipedia anyways.

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      RedAlert wrote:

      Quite alright. You're right, there are probably a lot of douchebags that get on there and screw with things. But, if I use articles from there, I try and make sure that they have cited sources.

      I usually will go to other places before I resort to Wikipedia anyways.

      yea that makes since :)
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]I'm just floating[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]Trying to keep my head above[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]From sinking down[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER][SIZE=1]Into sand.[/SIZE][/CENTER]
      [CENTER] [/CENTER]

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      You have lost sight of the main point. This war is an affront to mankind.
      [SIZE=1]"Religious suffering is the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature... It is the opium of the people." ~Karl Marx [/SIZE][SIZE=1]
      “Everything must justify its existence before the judgment seat of Reason, or give up existence”~ Engels[/SIZE]

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      Neo, my avatar is not designed to offend you. You're reminding me of Richard Nixon. (Nixon was a highly suspicous president, in that he was afraid that everyone was out to get him.) Don't think I'm out to get you. In all honesty I don't give a crap about you. Take your petty insults to were someone actually cares.

      In any case, godless, taking something out of a public place just because its religous is censorship defined. Private clubs based on religons are, in some areas, no longer able to meet in public places, escpecially school. This is censorship. The whole idea intrudes on civil rights. Religous Freedom in the US includes the right to practice our religons. The ACLU, as always, is quick to assault this civil right. Sorry, but theres no valid excuse for taking religous symbols out of public places. Once a town displayed a nativity scene and menora(sp?) in a public place and was sued. Of course, those filing suit were specifically after the nativity scene(true fact, look it up if you wish. I remember this from my Law Ed. textbook). I reserve my right to practice my religon, and I refuse to obey anyone who says I can't.

      Bottem line: the purpose of the constitution is not to allow goverment to put down religon. Rather, it allows for the free and open practice of religon. The ACLU and other organizations consistantly push to deny this right.
      It is a sad day when an innocent nation's flag is decried as hate speech.

      If I say it, I believe it. Most of the time, anyway. :lol:

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      godless_musician wrote:

      I would like my civil rights protected along with my ass. :rolleyes: Also my right to live under a secular government... I think there's plenty of material of this type with which to "diss" the president. I don't know whether the war in Iraq is justified--I don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion--but I do know that George Bush's black-and-white God's-on-our-side attitude majorly pisses me off. "You're either with us, or with the terrorists."
      I would like a president whose primary concern is the freedom and well-being of the American citizens--not somebody like Bush who believes himself to be "smiting" various countries and groups at the command of a deity.



      WHOA.

      I never said I support the presidents opinions. Because believe me. I don't. I think he has a horrible speaking ability, and lack of intelligence and he does bring religion in on political things which is wrong. I'm not here to defend the president. I'm saying that we did have a right to be over there in the war because of the attack. We are still there because we are helping them become a better country. Because we are "nice" like that I suppose, or because the president is an ass-kisser. Either way I support the troops, and having the right to have faught the war, not the president.

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      FutureNavyMan08 wrote:

      Neo, my avatar is not designed to offend you. You're reminding me of Richard Nixon. (Nixon was a highly suspicous president, in that he was afraid that everyone was out to get him.) Don't think I'm out to get you. In all honesty I don't give a crap about you. Take your petty insults to were someone actually cares.

      In any case, godless, taking something out of a public place just because its religous is censorship defined. Private clubs based on religons are, in some areas, no longer able to meet in public places, escpecially school. This is censorship. The whole idea intrudes on civil rights. Religous Freedom in the US includes the right to practice our religons. The ACLU, as always, is quick to assault this civil right. Sorry, but theres no valid excuse for taking religous symbols out of public places. Once a town displayed a nativity scene and menora(sp?) in a public place and was sued. Of course, those filing suit were specifically after the nativity scene(true fact, look it up if you wish. I remember this from my Law Ed. textbook). I reserve my right to practice my religon, and I refuse to obey anyone who says I can't.

      Bottem line: the purpose of the constitution is not to allow goverment to put down religon. Rather, it allows for the free and open practice of religon. The ACLU and other organizations consistantly push to deny this right.


      Religious freedom implies both freedom of religion *and* freedom from religion. Non-Christians as well as the non-religious have a right for Christian symbols not to be put in public places and especially not to be forced to pay for them with their tax money. You can practice your religion; you can even do it in public. But the government, local or federal, cannot support any expression for or against religion. The government should be blind to color, to religion, and to any other personal choice.

      Would you like it if the government were to sponsor a big atheist celebration every December, and put big atheist symbols over the graves of dead state troopers (regardless of their beliefs)? You would not, and you would sue. The only reason Christianity receives such privilege is that it is the majority religion. But we are NOT a "Christian nation."

      At the very least I demand that our money not carry the slogan "In God We Trust," prayer not be sponsored by public schools, and "Under God" not be included in our Pledge of Allegiance. All those things are unconstitutional and blatantly pro-Christian.
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      1.) Both displays were paid for by private organizations.
      2.) How is a menora offensive?
      3.)You cannot rewrite something historic simply because someone doesn't like it.
      4.) If all you say is true, then why is the ACLU wageing war against private organizations? Example. Many schools have christian clubs, made up of students and not funded by the school. The ACLU has gone after theese clubs repeatebly. They have a right to assemble and a right to their beliefs.
      It is a sad day when an innocent nation's flag is decried as hate speech.

      If I say it, I believe it. Most of the time, anyway. :lol:

    • Re: How Do You Feel About The War???

      FutureNavyMan08 wrote:

      1.) Both displays were paid for by private organizations.
      2.) How is a menora offensive?
      3.)You cannot rewrite something historic simply because someone doesn't like it.
      4.) If all you say is true, then why is the ACLU wageing war against private organizations? Example. Many schools have christian clubs, made up of students and not funded by the school. The ACLU has gone after theese clubs repeatebly. They have a right to assemble and a right to their beliefs.


      1.) I didn't know that. Could you cite the specific stories so I can check the facts?
      2.) A menorah isn't offensive, but a menorah on a dollar bill sure would be.
      3.) They rewrote something historical in adding that phrase, and we want to rewrite it back, because it is a violation of the Constitution.
      4.) Same as number one.

      If the ACLU really has attacked private organizations for their actions (unless they somehow violated somebody's rights) I do not support that. However I do support keeping our government completely secular. You can worship what you want and however you want, but you will not have any privilege because of it.
      And your very flesh shall be a great poem.
      -Walt Whitman