GOD: real or fake?

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 2:21am

A Brief History of The Universe:
Pre-Big Bang
-All matter in the universe was collected in a singularity. The universe is in the greatest state of order
Post-Big Bang
-The singularity "explodes" releasing energy and expanding the universe, up to this point the entirety of the universe was that singularity
-Energy turns into matter and forms rudimentary particles
-Particles assemble into elements, chiefly hydrogen, composing 99.9% of all matter, and helium, .01% of all matter
Time Passes
-Hydrogen clouds become denser and reach temperature at which thermonuclear reactions begin with the hydrogen, stars are created
-First 3 generations of stars are created and eventually die. It was during the time of these stars that the heavier elements, Carbon, Iron, Aluminum and so on were produced at the center of the stars
Solar System
-Our star is created from interstellar clouds of hydrogen and other elements. Matter around the star, chiefly the heavir metals, coalesces into planets
-Earth is created from matter not used to build the star
-Solar system stabilizes and the Earth begins to cool
-Atmosphere of sulfur and carbondioxide forms on the Earth
-Primitive life emerges as small, single-cell bacteria begin to thrive on the carbon dioxide and sulfur in the air
-Photosynthesis emerges as the dominant autotropic method of production
-Photosynthesis begins to creat an excess of oxygen, eventually leading to our present atmosphere
-Higher order animals evolve, first marine later land
-Complex mammals and primates evolve
-Humanity evolves intelligence and begins to shape the enviroment

This is the brief history of the univers. Even now, astronomers can see the same method by which our solar system was created occur in other worlds
Extraterrestrial planets have been discovered. Even the death of stars has been observed.
This can lead to two possible conclusions:
1. God does not exists
2. God, as some force of powerful being, was responcible for the creation of the basic laws that govern our world but has no influence in our world, and thus fait is inconsequential, no different than a force of nature

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 2:32am

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

Here is my belief. You can agree or disagree.
I'm making a point here. How do we know that our parents told us God was real only to make problaby everyone else's life easier?

The Bible was made long ago.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

Another good reason is because in the bible God says that one must not cut their hair or it was sin.

You don't believe in God because you disagree with this? That's not a reason not to believe, that's a reason why you should chose another religion.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

So I guess everyone is going to hell.

Not in my view. I'm Christian, and I don't believe non believers go to hell.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

If this is so true why do people claim God hates gays?

Why? Maybe because they don't like gays? There's only one statment in the New Testament that claims being Gay isn't right. There is also the matter of Jesus telling us to love all. It depends on how you interpret the Bible.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

If God was real he would want us to be happy. Not give us a bunch of rules to follow by and if you didn't you were going to hell.

So if God had no rules for you to follow, and you had nothing to go off of you would be happy? Rules are set to protect you, and keep you from doing something that you'll later regret.

WOW wait a minute here..hold up! Where does it say that if you don't follow the rules you go to hell? If you accept Jesus as your savior, you're saved from your sins, and get accepted into heaven.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

Now I'm going to use one of my favorite people in history, Hitler. People said that Hitler brainwashed a lot of people making them follow him. Which was clearly wrong because those people were for Hitler the whole way through the huge situation. But if one person can apparently brainwash millions of people do you possibibly think that maybe a few people brainwashed some humans and the thrend went on? I think so. How can people believe something that isn't there.

HUH? Hitler had that country going downhill. Not to mention, not all Germans agreed with him. If I remember, Hitler didn't even have majority. Either way, I didn't get the point to your post.

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

God's father was so against murder that he allowed his only son to be killed for us. Right. Come on people.

What does that have to do with this? Jesus was killed to save our sins. Come on people? I just read your entire post, and it's flawed throughout. So please, don't tell me to "come on" with anything.

Instead of using Christianity as a basis, try looking into other religions. You're using logic that makes no sense. Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or, just because you don't believe in something doesn't make it so. Example: I could go out and murder 5 young kids right now. I could say "I don't believe in the death penalty/prison." However, that isn't going to stop the fact I'm getting/going to one of the two.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 2:38am

jnifw3nloi wrote:

A Brief History of The Universe:
Pre-Big Bang
-All matter in the universe was collected in a singularity. The universe is in the greatest state of order
All matter in the universe was collected in a singularity. The universe is in the greatest state of order
Post-Big Bang
-The singularity "explodes" releasing energy and expanding the universe, up to this point the entirety of the universe was that singularity
-Energy turns into matter and forms rudimentary particles

Where did that energy come from? Not to mention you're contradicting yourself. I think you mean energy was collected, not matter. You just said matter was formed later on.

jnifw3nloi wrote:

This can lead to two possible conclusions:
1. God does not exists
2. God, as some force of powerful being, was responcible for the creation of the basic laws that govern our world but has no influence in our world, and thus fait is inconsequential, no different than a force of nature

That doesn't lead to anything. One, that doesn't prove or disprove God. Two, God could have simply sneezed and that's what we call the "big bang." Or three, every detail in the Bible could be accurate, and God, for whatever reason, could have left evidence for us to believe in evolution/big bang etc.

xxXRawrHelloKittyxxX · May 7th 2007, 2:45am

Like I said that's my belief and you cam disagree all you want.
Personally I don't believe in God. Which is my right due to Freedom of Speech. But I really can't express my views on the internet because Freedom of Speech doesn't apply.

Anyway, my post had some careless errors. I understand that. You have your religion. And I have mine. I won't push mine on you and I hope you respect my choice not to have yours pushed on myself.

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 2:45am

E=MC^2 Einstein's relation of matter and energy. Shortly after the Big Bang the energy that was present "congealed" into the matter that we have today. I apologize for the nebulous description but I do not fully understand the mechanics.
Why would God do such a thing? Why would he want his people to question their origins? If he was so sneaky why send Jesus, why inspire the bible?

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 2:50am

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

Like I said that's my belief and you cam disagree all you want.
Personally I don't believe in God. Which is my right due to Freedom of Speech. But I really can't express my views on the internet because Freedom of Speech doesn't apply.

Anyway, my post had some careless errors. I understand that. You have your religion. And I have mine. I won't push mine on you and I hope you respect my choice not to have yours pushed on myself.

Hey I just love debating. I'm not the usual Christian who goes around and says "if you don't believe in God, you go to hell." But I'll generally put a response to anything I see fit, so yep:)

jnifw3nloi wrote:

E=MC^2 Einstein's relation of matter and energy. Shortly after the Big Bang the energy that was present "congealed" into the matter that we have today. I apologize for the nebulous description but I do not fully understand the mechanics.
Why would God do such a thing? Why would he want his people to question their origins? If he was so sneaky why send Jesus, why inspire the bible?

I'm not too familar with the matter/energy concepts. I just know the basics.

Why would God? I cannot answer that, I'm not God. Why is there the Bible? The Old Testament was already written, before Jesus, and it was Gods way of spreading the word. Why send Jesus? To save our sins.

xxXRawrHelloKittyxxX · May 7th 2007, 2:53am

sweetguy4126 wrote:

Hey I just love debating. I'm not the usual Christian who goes around and says "if you don't believe in God, you go to hell." But I'll generally put a response to anything I see fit, so yep:)

I love debating to a certain point. You get to speak your mind and no one can tell you that you're in the wrong. Well I love your debating skills. You made awesome points and you make people think.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 2:54am

I'llBeTheDeathOfYou. wrote:

I love debating to a certain point. You get to speak your mind and no one can tell you that you're in the wrong. Well I love your debating skills. You made awesome points and you make people think.

Thank you.

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 2:56am

And what of the Jews? If it is the same god, why do we need a prophet? And what of Islam. Perhaps that is the true faith. It is newer than Christianity, hipper certainly. Maybe the Mormons are right choice. I mean god has spoken to them most recently.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 3:07am

jnifw3nloi wrote:

And what of the Jews? If it is the same god, why do we need a prophet? And what of Islam. Perhaps that is the true faith. It is newer than Christianity, hipper certainly. Maybe the Mormons are right choice. I mean god has spoken to them most recently.

It's the same Abrahamic God, ok? It may be the same God, but there are three different views about the way things happend with that God. The Qur'an and Bible are somewhat similar. Yes, maybe Islam is the correct one. Maybe it's Atheism, maybe it's Christianty, maybe it's Wicca. Maybe they're all bull and we're some messed up experiment of an advanced alien race.

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 3:13am

Quite so. However, I have thought for quite some time that religion in general is very opressive. Requiring manking to remove its logical thought in favour of faith in a force without any explenation. So long Europe was in darkness, the church had absolute authority, ruling the lives of men with hellfire and damnation. Then the renaissance and after that, man entered a time of great intellectual growth. More was created in the 300 years of industrial revolution than during any time before. I quite dissaprove of any religion that forces its people to abandon logic, to believe in one thing or be resigned to hell, to remove any intellectual and technological growth. That is the greatest misuse of humanity. And if god must be removed to ensure human growth, so be it.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 3:16am

jnifw3nloi wrote:

Quite so. However, I have thought for quite some time that religion in general is very opressive. Requiring manking to remove its logical thought in favour of faith in a force without any explenation. So long Europe was in darkness, the church had absolute authority, ruling the lives of men with hellfire and damnation. Then the renaissance and after that, man entered a time of great intellectual growth. More was created in the 300 years of industrial revolution than during any time before. I quite dissaprove of any religion that forces its people to abandon logic, to believe in one thing or be resigned to hell, to remove any intellectual and technological growth. That is the greatest misuse of humanity. And if god must be removed to ensure human growth, so be it.

Yes, you're correct. Religion has been known to stiffle human progress. However, I would rather have eternal life in 20,000 years than be worrying about my cancer being cured.

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 3:19am

Come again? Scientific progress can lead to eternal life. The biomechanical extension of the human lifespan has no limits.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 3:22am

jnifw3nloi wrote:

Come again? Scientific progress can lead to eternal life. The biomechanical extension of the human lifespan has no limits.

In my lifetime, it more than likely wont happen. Not to mention, at some point im sure this universe will collapse and any human that did survive wont anymore.

godless_musician · May 7th 2007, 4:53am

sweetguy4126 wrote:

While is it true you lack belief in God, you do believe everything happend by chance, with requires faith.

Actually, I don't believe that everything happened by chance.

I can turn your statment right back around. Theism is just lack of belief in a "pure chance creation."

No, theism is belief in God.

Hyprocritical? Need I remind you that in your first post you said God was fake because

I said that if somebody thought God to be both all-loving and all-powerful, then that conception of God can't exist because it leads to a logical contradiction. You can add any amount of fluff about free will but it is still a contradiction.

You basically just implied that an all loving and an all powerful God wouldn't create evil. In other words, you implied that (assuming they truly do) if these two contradict themselves, this means God doesn't exist.

Yes. If your conception of God includes his being both all-powerful and all-loving. As I said, that's not always applicable. Please represent my arguments accurately.

sweetguy4126 · May 7th 2007, 5:45am

godless_musician wrote:

Actually, I don't believe that everything happened by chance.

Then enlighten me

godless_musician wrote:

No, theism is belief in God.

It's also a lack of belief in pure chance. It's both, I implied half the definition.

godless_musician wrote:

I said that if somebody thought God to be both all-loving and all-powerful, then that conception of God can't exist because it leads to a logical contradiction. You can add any amount of fluff about free will but it is still a contradiction.

If you include free will, you cannot contradict good with all loving. Asumming God is also omniscient, he may also know whether or not the living want free will, or if they want to be puppets on a string. He makes what he sees fit, and what he sees right.

godless_musician wrote:

Yes. If your conception of God includes his being both all-powerful and all-loving. As I said, that's not always applicable. Please represent my arguments accurately.

I already adressed this, in which I used free will.

fumanchu451 · May 7th 2007, 11:05pm

godless you once said to sumone that how can god suddenly exist well can a rock suddenly appear in the galaxy and then can that rock form planets and life well no it cant god is more belivable

jnifw3nloi · May 7th 2007, 11:57pm

A Brief History of The Universe:
Pre-Big Bang
-All matter in the universe was collected in a singularity. The universe is in the greatest state of order
Post-Big Bang
-The singularity "explodes" releasing energy and expanding the universe, up to this point the entirety of the universe was that singularity
-Energy turns into matter and forms rudimentary particles, through Enistein's relation E=MC^2
-Particles assemble into elements, chiefly hydrogen, composing 99.9% of all matter, and helium, .01% of all matter
Time Passes
-Hydrogen clouds become denser and reach temperature at which thermonuclear reactions begin with the hydrogen, stars are created
-First 3 generations of stars are created and eventually die. It was during the time of these stars that the heavier elements, Carbon, Iron, Aluminum and so on were produced at the center of the stars
Solar System
-Our star is created from interstellar clouds of hydrogen and other elements. Matter around the star, chiefly the heavir metals, coalesces into planets
-Earth is created from matter not used to build the star
-Solar system stabilizes and the Earth begins to cool
-Atmosphere of sulfur and carbondioxide forms on the Earth
-Primitive life emerges as small, single-cell bacteria begin to thrive on the carbon dioxide and sulfur in the air
-Photosynthesis emerges as the dominant autotropic method of production
-Photosynthesis begins to creat an excess of oxygen, eventually leading to our present atmosphere
-Higher order animals evolve, first marine later land
-Complex mammals and primates evolve
-Humanity evolves intelligence and begins to shape the enviroment

sweetguy4126 · May 8th 2007, 12:08am

jnifw3nloi wrote:

A Brief History of The Universe:
Pre-Big Bang
-All matter in the universe was collected in a singularity. The universe is in the greatest state of order
Post-Big Bang
-The singularity "explodes" releasing energy and expanding the universe, up to this point the entirety of the universe was that singularity
-Energy turns into matter and forms rudimentary particles, through Enistein's relation E=MC^2
-Particles assemble into elements, chiefly hydrogen, composing 99.9% of all matter, and helium, .01% of all matter
Time Passes
-Hydrogen clouds become denser and reach temperature at which thermonuclear reactions begin with the hydrogen, stars are created
-First 3 generations of stars are created and eventually die. It was during the time of these stars that the heavier elements, Carbon, Iron, Aluminum and so on were produced at the center of the stars
Solar System
-Our star is created from interstellar clouds of hydrogen and other elements. Matter around the star, chiefly the heavir metals, coalesces into planets
-Earth is created from matter not used to build the star
-Solar system stabilizes and the Earth begins to cool
-Atmosphere of sulfur and carbondioxide forms on the Earth
-Primitive life emerges as small, single-cell bacteria begin to thrive on the carbon dioxide and sulfur in the air
-Photosynthesis emerges as the dominant autotropic method of production
-Photosynthesis begins to creat an excess of oxygen, eventually leading to our present atmosphere
-Higher order animals evolve, first marine later land
-Complex mammals and primates evolve
-Humanity evolves intelligence and begins to shape the enviroment

May I ask why you keep posting this?

Again, where did the energy come from to trigger this big bang? Not even mentioning, the big bang is a theory, along with evolution. You're talking as though you "know" this is what happend. If you cannot tell me where the energy came from, you cannot tell me this is how it happend with certainty.

jnifw3nloi · May 8th 2007, 12:11am

In responce to Fuma's statement about rocks.

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