Abortion: let's get a real debate going

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    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Sum wrote:

      I would be interested to hear a valid argument for why abortion is acceptable in any circumstances if it is murder

      The health and life of the mother is far more valuable than the embryo's.
      "I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
      - George Carlin

      Striker88;1062839033 wrote:

      You know why nobody has gotten evidence? God hasn't allowed that and won't.

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Sum wrote:

      (Just going to use this one as an example, nothing personal)

      Know what genuinely intrigues me? The amount of people who voted that abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances. I really think it's the case that most of you guys haven't thought this through fully: abortion is either murder or it is not murder. If it is murder, then it doesn't become justified just because it increases the health or mental state of women; it doesn't become justified if the pregnancy is caused by rape or incest; it doesn't become justified because the embryo is a parasite. If it is not murder, then what do the circumstances matter? No wrong is being done anyway.

      You can't cowardly take the neutral middle-ground this way I'm afraid, ladies and gentlemen: either abortion is murder or it is not. I would be interested to hear a valid argument for why abortion is acceptable in any circumstances if it is murder, or why it is unacceptable in any circumstances if it isn't murder.
      Your extreme black-and-white view of things is slightly disturbing and leads me to believe you've not experienced a whole lot of life.
      If someone is being attacked by a bear and they shoot it, that's quite different than if they find a bear, catch it, put it in a cage, and shoot it just for the lulz. The outcome is the same - the bear is dead - but the actual situation is very different.
      Same, too, we could say about killing a chicken. Some people will kill a chicken for food, for fun, or because it is ill. Most people don't consider any of these "murder," but there still are limitations on what most people would consider acceptable.
      And do you not put a pet down if it is suffering? If your dog is dying of cancer, do you still apply the "it's murder or not, so circumstances don't matter" philosophy? Because, if you do, that would mean it is, by that thought process, equally acceptable to kill your dog to put it out of its misery as to kill it just for the lulz.

      Sum wrote:


      Oh, and we all know (or rather should know) that it is perfectly possible to become pregnant even if we're on a couple of different contraceptives. The fact of that matter is that sex produces babies, and so a pregnancy should never come as a complete surprise (unless you're not sexually active and your other half's been wanking in the bath and you share bathwater, I suppose). So, simply saying "shoulda used a johnny" is not appropriate and, given the possible outcome, consent to sex essentially implies a willingless to become pregnant.
      And consent to an abortion implies a willingness to terminate the pregnancy. Consent to drinking alcohol implies a willingness to get a hangover, but I'm still gonna take some painkillers in the morning.

      ~Maggot
      [size=3]Oh! why is phrensy called a curse?
      I deem the sense of misery worse:
      Come, Madness, come!      [/size]

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Goddess of Judecca ().

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      JennyColada wrote:

      So more or less: If a woman wants an abortion then that's good enough.

      Yes.
      "I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
      - George Carlin

      Striker88;1062839033 wrote:

      You know why nobody has gotten evidence? God hasn't allowed that and won't.

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      My personal belief is that abortion is wrong, save for some exceptional circumstances. However, I also believe that I have no right to force my beliefs onto other people.
      "Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it." - Bruce Lee
      :tong:

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      I believe both parents should have a choice to it, and that choice should only concern their opinions and values on the matter, regardless of outside opinions.

      Regardless of the choice they make, a lot of people will disapprove and a lot of people will approve. You can't please everyone, so just make the choice which satisfies you and your heart. If you're against it, don't do it. If you're for it, get it done.

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Jarndyce wrote:

      Why do some of us consider abortion wrong? Are there any who have non-religious reasons?

      I ask out of genuine interest, not trollishly.

      Many people consider life "begins at conception" and after that moment you're ending a person's life intentionally. AKA, murder.
      "I've never understood ethnic or national pride, because to me pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."
      - George Carlin

      Striker88;1062839033 wrote:

      You know why nobody has gotten evidence? God hasn't allowed that and won't.

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      DamnImGood wrote:

      Many people consider life "begins at conception" and after that moment you're ending a person's life intentionally. AKA, murder.


      Sure, but why does the foetus have the right to use the woman's body for nine(ish) months? Surely she has a right to choose whether something uses her body or not?
      [CENTER][COLOR="Green"]If you have nothing to say, say nothing.
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    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Jarndyce wrote:

      Sure, but why does the foetus have the right to use the woman's body for nine(ish) months? Surely she has a right to choose whether something uses her body or not?
      If the fetus is a person, as some believe, then the fact that it's using the mothers body becomes somewhat irrelevant. At that point, it's a human being who is insured with the same rights as you or I.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Yes, but neither you or I have the right to unconditionally demand the use of a woman's body for 9ish months, regardless of whether we meet the criteria for personhood. Would you not agree?
      The woman still retains the 'right' to decide who or what uses her body, so why is it not within her rights to choose to deny a foetus the use of hers.
      [CENTER][COLOR="Green"]If you have nothing to say, say nothing.
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    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      Jarndyce wrote:

      Yes, but neither you or I have the right to unconditionally demand the use of a woman's body for 9ish months, regardless of whether we meet the criteria for personhood. Would you not agree?
      The woman still retains the 'right' to decide who or what uses her body, so why is it not within her rights to choose to deny a foetus the use of hers.
      If the fetus is actually a person, then no I would not agree.

      Once you become a person, you are provided the same "rights" as the mother, in which case abortion would be the equivalent of premeditated murder.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    • Re: Abortion: let's get a real debate going

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      If the fetus is actually a person, then no I would not agree.

      Once you become a person, you are provided the same "rights" as the mother, in which case abortion would be the equivalent of premeditated murder.


      Sure, I'll accept that if a foetus is a person then abortion constitutes murder. Could I clarify your post though - do you consider that you or I (as people) have the right to the use of a woman's body against her will for 9ish months?
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      The post was edited 2 times, last by Jarndyce ().