Immigrants

xNerRadx · Jul 30th 2010, 2:50am

Zen wrote:

To be blunt, you sound spoiled. What's the closest thing to their condition you've experience, dare I ask?

Thanks:D. And... none of your business.

Frosty · Jul 30th 2010, 3:09am

Sidewinder wrote:

I am against illegal immigration. They may want to come here, but then they task our systems that dont account for them being there. They are not paying taxes, and using the systems that we pay taxes for.

So the problem is big government, not immigration?

zapfox · Jul 30th 2010, 6:53pm

xNerRadx wrote:

Thanks:D. And... none of your business.

Oh my.

This is a futile cause. Your opinions are simply too deep rooted, regardless of their validity.

There are people who understand and empathize with those involved. Then, there are others who cannot or don't care to try.

However, your core argument about non-citizens demanding rights they cannot have is sound, if only from a cold, purely legal standpoint. I guess I just have an easier time thinking:

If I were a Mexican worker being forced out of my lifelong home by the economy/crime/whatever and I had the chance to get into America so that the child my wife is pregnant with can be free from this Hell, I'd take it. We could escape the small town with rampant crime and corrupt police that seek payment for protection. Then, when it comes down to it, I would also fight to not leave my baby and return, even if that fight doesn't make legal sense. It's really only human nature to want to stay with your child.

You see? Some people read this and say: "Tough luck. Go back to your hole and somehow make it better." Others who have had different experiences in life and hold different beliefs can more easily understand such a story.

xNerRadx · Jul 31st 2010, 12:56am

zapfox wrote:

Oh my.

This is a futile cause. Your opinions are simply too deep rooted, regardless of their validity.

There are people who understand and empathize with those involved. Then, there are others who cannot or don't care to try.

However, your core argument about non-citizens demanding rights they cannot have is sound, if only from a cold, purely legal standpoint. I guess I just have an easier time thinking:

If I were a Mexican worker being forced out of my lifelong home by the economy/crime/whatever and I had the chance to get into America so that the child my wife is pregnant with can be free from this Hell, I'd take it. We could escape the small town with rampant crime and corrupt police that seek payment for protection. Then, when it comes down to it, I would also fight to not leave my baby and return, even if that fight doesn't make legal sense. It's really only human nature to want to stay with your child.

You see? Some people read this and say: "Tough luck. Go back to your hole and somehow make it better." Others who have had different experiences in life and hold different beliefs can more easily understand such a story.

I agree their situation sucks, and I also agree family shouldn't be separated. But I don't agree that they need to be hopping borders illegally into another country. If your going to leave your country to have a better life, do it the right way. If not, you have every reason to be deported.

And just leaving your country isn't the only way to solve your problems. Don't they have a democracy? Mexico as a nation has the right to picket their own laws for change. If they don't like their president, take action. What would life be like for African Americans today in the U.S. if Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers had ran to Mexico?

Willardlol · Jul 31st 2010, 1:29am

xNerRadx wrote:

And just leaving your country isn't the only way to solve your problems. Don't they have a democracy? Mexico as a nation has the right to picket their own laws for change.

Some governments aren't as stable as ours, and technically they're aren't a democracy. Sometimes it's better to take the easy route for your family. Leaving your country is easier than fighting it.

xNerRadx wrote:

If they don't like their president, take action. What would life be like for African Americans today in the U.S. if Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers had ran to Mexico?

There'd be a lot of sexy Blaxicans like me ;D

xNerRadx · Jul 31st 2010, 2:00am

Willardlol wrote:

There'd be a lot of sexy Blaxicans like me ;D

And we'd still be treated like animals. But because we had people to fight for a better life, we got it.

JC · Jul 31st 2010, 3:37am

xNerRadx wrote:

I agree their situation sucks, and I also agree family shouldn't be separated. But I don't agree that they need to be hopping borders illegally into another country. If your going to leave your country to have a better life, do it the right way. If not, you have every reason to be deported.

And just leaving your country isn't the only way to solve your problems. Don't they have a democracy? Mexico as a nation has the right to picket their own laws for change. If they don't like their president, take action. What would life be like for African Americans today in the U.S. if Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers had ran to Mexico?

Do it the right way? That's pretty hard man.
Take into account that the people that are fleeing the country in search of more money are doing that because they don't get enough money to survive in Mexico.

Like I said before, the requirements to legally emigrate to the USA are WAY too high for this people to follow.

I mean seriously, your wife is pregnant with a kid, you just lost your job, you can't go out into the streets to sell hot dogs because you are afraid of getting it stolen, or worse, getting yourself shot, , you can barely maintain yourself and then when you go up to the immigration department " Nope. Sorry. You have to be working for an American company already. What you want a tourist visa? I can't give it to you because your income isn't big enough. You also don't own property." Which translates into : Screw you. You wanna come here? Well you better hop the border because we ain't giving you legal access to the country.

gardenhead · Jul 31st 2010, 7:26am

I'm against illegal immigration just because I actually had to to it legally. It costs a lot of time, money and resources just to get a visa and proper documentation. After that, you need more time to be a citizen as well. It's just unfair that some people can just waltz in here while some people actually go through the whole process, all the while having the nerve to demand the same kind of treatment and benefits that legal immigrants/citizens get.

To those who say that it's too hard? I'm sorry, but too fucking bad. America isn't and shouldn't be your 'reset' button when you fuck up. I didn't come from a rich family and we still did it the proper way. It's a geography problem. You got born in a shitty country living a shitty life and it's not anyone else's problem-- and it certainly doesn't give you the right to come here and demand shit athat you aren't entitled to.

Sash · Jul 31st 2010, 8:12am

xNerRadx wrote:

If you want to come into our country, do it legally and make sure you're considered a citizen before trying to change our government policies.

You don't really have the right to demand that foreigners abide by your constitution, when your country doesn't respect sovereignty and human rights of its adversaries.

Zen wrote:

What's the closest thing to their condition you've experience, dare I ask?

The greatest threat he might have faced is his video game character attacked by an opposing AI/RPG adversary. You can never make them understand as they lack basic human qualities like a sense of honour and compassion. They are cowardly savages, in a manner of speaking.

By the way, there is extremely small 'legal immigration' to the United States. Most of the 'legal immigrants' to US are actually expatriates.

xNerRadx · Jul 31st 2010, 7:47pm

gardenhead wrote:

I'm against illegal immigration just because I actually had to to it legally. It costs a lot of time, money and resources just to get a visa and proper documentation. After that, you need more time to be a citizen as well. It's just unfair that some people can just waltz in here while some people actually go through the whole process, all the while having the nerve to demand the same kind of treatment and benefits that legal immigrants/citizens get.

To those who say that it's too hard? I'm sorry, but too fucking bad. America isn't and shouldn't be your 'reset' button when you fuck up. I didn't come from a rich family and we still did it the proper way. It's a geography problem. You got born in a shitty country living a shitty life and it's not anyone else's problem-- and it certainly doesn't give you the right to come here and demand shit athat you aren't entitled to.

I bow down to you.

Sash wrote:

The greatest threat he might have faced is his video game character attacked by an opposing AI/RPG adversary. You can never make them understand as they lack basic human qualities like a sense of honour and compassion. They are cowardly savages, in a manner of speaking.

Yeah, totally:rolleyes:.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty blessed financially. But just because I don't have financial issues, doesn't mean I don't have other issues. The problems I have, I just have to fight through because I definitely can't run from them. And you call me a coward? What are the illegal immigrants?...

And please, don't tell me I lack compassion when you just called me a "cowardly savage". I guess it really does take one to know one right?

Sash · Aug 1st 2010, 3:17pm

xNerRadx wrote:

And you call me a coward? What are the illegal immigrants?

People who want a better life and would do anything to get it, which in no way fulfills the criteria of cowardice.

xNerRadx wrote:

And please, don't tell me I lack compassion when you just called me a "cowardly savage".

I can tell you both, since you lack compassion AND are a cowardly savage.

xNerRadx wrote:

I guess it really does take one to know one right?

If that is how things worked in the real world, a policemen would have to be a thief himself to be able to recognise a thief.

max123987 · Aug 2nd 2010, 10:31am

Wouldn't have to worry about too much if they'd just get taxed like hell. I'm 14 almost 15 have a part-time job and half of that is taken out from taxes so I say If you're not even gonna pay taxes then get the fuck out of our country and stop using the stuff that American tax payers pay for.

Frosty · Aug 2nd 2010, 2:50pm

max123987 wrote:

Wouldn't have to worry about too much if they'd just get taxed like hell. I'm 14 almost 15 have a part-time job and half of that is taken out from taxes so I say If you're not even gonna pay taxes then get the fuck out of our country and stop using the stuff that American tax payers pay for.

"I got mugged when I walked through the ghetto so that means it's only fair if everyone else gets robbed too."

JC · Aug 2nd 2010, 6:15pm

max123987 wrote:

Wouldn't have to worry about too much if they'd just get taxed like hell. I'm 14 almost 15 have a part-time job and half of that is taken out from taxes so I say If you're not even gonna pay taxes then get the fuck out of our country and stop using the stuff that American tax payers pay for.

They do not get the same privileges that you do, so no they should not be taxed as hell.

And actually Mexican Immigrants are good for your economy...

xNerRadx · Aug 2nd 2010, 8:34pm

alfaspider06 wrote:

Why would America want to halt Mexicans from leaving the country?

I guess it's becoming a bigger problem in some areas. Illegal immigration has always been a problem but I guess it's gotten worse.

max123987 · Aug 3rd 2010, 4:06am

Huitzilopochtli wrote:

They do not get the same privileges that you do, so no they should not be taxed as hell.

And actually Mexican Immigrants are good for your economy...

How so? If an American needs to get something of anything from the state or government they have to go through hell and pretty much be dead, all a Mexican has to go is go in there. Plus Illegal Immigration causes a lot of problems when it comes to Identity Theft. The come here, get a SSN thats not really issued to them get fake identification, guess what, that identity theft.

Willardlol · Aug 4th 2010, 5:29pm

alfaspider06 wrote:

Its alot more than "several foreigners" who have illegeally immigrated into the USA.

I said "several foreigners immigrating". Never did I say they were illegally immigrating.

max123987 wrote:

How so? If an American needs to get something of anything from the state or government they have to go through hell and pretty much be dead, all a Mexican has to go is go in there. Plus Illegal Immigration causes a lot of problems when it comes to Identity Theft. The come here, get a SSN thats not really issued to them get fake identification, guess what, that identity theft.

Huitzilopochtli didn't say illegal immigrants. He only said Mexican Immigrants.

zapfox · Aug 4th 2010, 6:50pm

xNerRadx wrote:

I guess it's becoming a bigger problem in some areas. Illegal immigration has always been a problem but I guess it's gotten worse.

Yeah. Like ever since 1513.
Since it's been largely ignored, I'll say it again: unless you can trace your heritage directly to the indigenous people of the Americas, it's difficult to criticize any immigration.

Granted, there was no authority to govern immigration back then. However, I'm pretty sure that being killed and having their land stolen didn't do wonders for the "job outlook", "local economy", or "crime rates" of the Native American community. Compared to what immigrants COULD do (like overrun the nation and force the current population to live in small, barren "reservations), the situation isn't that bad. All they do is take jobs nobody else wants and live their lives in fear of being deported. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be if they are discovered. I'm just saying that they aren't causing too much of a problem, compared to other issues in American society.

Frosty · Aug 4th 2010, 11:32pm

max123987 wrote:

How so? If an American needs to get something of anything from the state or government they have to go through hell and pretty much be dead, all a Mexican has to go is go in there.

Cool story bro.

max123987 wrote:

Plus Illegal Immigration causes a lot of problems when it comes to Identity Theft. The come here, get a SSN thats not really issued to them get fake identification, guess what, that identity theft.

Right, so immigrants are forced to do stuff like this thanks to the government forcing businesses to require such things for their obscene taxation programs + their irratioonal fear of illegal immigrants, and it's all the immigrants fault?

EDIT: I'd appreciate it if those of you who disagree with me would actually face me in a debate as opposed to merely giving me anonymous negative reps.

Sidewinder · Aug 5th 2010, 5:12am

Frosty wrote:

Cool story bro.

Right, so immigrants are forced to do stuff like this thanks to the government forcing businesses to require such things for their obscene taxation programs + their irratioonal fear of illegal immigrants, and it's all the immigrants fault?

EDIT: I'd appreciate it if those of you who disagree with me would actually face me in a debate as opposed to merely giving me anonymous negative reps.

So what! I still think thats Identity theft, and as far as I know its still illegal. I guess all the people that got fired by there employer can go steal from them because they got fired and now dont have a source of income. If you want to immigrate here, do it legally. Just because our country has higher paying jobs then theres doesnt mean they can just come over, take jobs and use our social systems that every other american pays into, and they dont.

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