Decriminalising drug use

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Spaceman Spiff wrote:

      The problem is that meth is far different...it has a profound effect on one's mental health and leads to bizarre, paranoid, dangerous behavior, heightened aggression and permanent short-term memory loss...and yes, it is deadly. I'm aware that tobacco is also potentially deadly, but tobacco smokers are capable of leading normal, productive lives, whereas meth addicts are not. It's one thing to smoke tobacco for 40 years with the risk of maybe possibly getting lung cancer (and many people don't) but meth is just bad news.

      Not everyone who takes meth starts punching through brick walls and murdering cops in an invincible rage. And this assumes that firstly legalisation will significantly increase use of hard drugs, and secondly that any people who do take up these drugs upon legalisation are going to be as irresponsible or more irresponsible on average with their drug use than those who use it illegally. Not to mention I'm sure plenty of those events where people go crazy are from people taking too much, something that the unknown quality sold on the black market doesn't help. In addition, this still ignores the other benefits. Even if we do get a few more people going crazy on meth and murdering people, we'll probably have way more drug dealers out of a job and not murdering people.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Frosty wrote:

      Not everyone who takes meth starts punching through brick walls and murdering cops in an invincible rage. And this assumes that firstly legalisation will significantly increase use of hard drugs, and secondly that any people who do take up these drugs upon legalisation are going to be as irresponsible or more irresponsible on average with their drug use than those who use it illegally. Not to mention I'm sure plenty of those events where people go crazy are from people taking too much, something that the unknown quality sold on the black market doesn't help. In addition, this still ignores the other benefits. Even if we do get a few more people going crazy on meth and murdering people, we'll probably have way more drug dealers out of a job and not murdering people.
      You still have to take into consideration the potential strain legalization might put on the healthcare system. People who would get addicted to these drugs probably won't have health insurance, creating a big mess where the hospitals and treatment centers are paying out of pocket. I made the point a few posts above that the strain might not be that great due to the amount of people who actually use hard drugs (which isn't that many), but it could go either way. There's no certainty that more people will start trying drugs, and there's no certainty that they won't. You yourself can't possibly know what would happen if drugs get legalized. Nobody does, sorry to break your crystal ball.
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    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Christopher wrote:

      You still have to take into consideration the potential strain legalization might put on the healthcare system. People who would get addicted to these drugs probably won't have health insurance, creating a big mess where the hospitals and treatment centers are paying out of pocket. I made the point a few posts above that the strain might not be that great due to the amount of people who actually use hard drugs (which isn't that many), but it could go either way. There's no certainty that more people will start trying drugs, and there's no certainty that they won't. You yourself can't possibly know what would happen if drugs get legalized. Nobody does, sorry to break your crystal ball.

      I'm just making the reasonable assumption that very few people are going to start shooting up heroin just because the government isn't going to throw you in jail. In addition, the people most inclined to use drugs irresponsibly are probably the ones least discouraged by their current criminality.

      Also, I'm sick of hearing about how X policy will "put a strain on the healthcare system". Let the free market deal with healthcare and it'll be about as much of an issue as marijuana legalisation "putting a strain" on Bob Marley CD's and fast food stored.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Frosty wrote:

      I'm just making the reasonable assumption that very few people are going to start shooting up heroin just because the government isn't going to throw you in jail. In addition, the people most inclined to use drugs irresponsibly are probably the ones least discouraged by their current criminality.

      Also, I'm sick of hearing about how X policy will "put a strain on the healthcare system". Let the free market deal with healthcare and it'll be about as much of an issue as marijuana legalisation "putting a strain" on Bob Marley CD's and fast food stored.
      I know you probably love drugs, a whole lot, but you have to be realistic ;). That's what adults do. The healthcare system is one of the most important systems we have. A policy's affect on that system absolutely must be taken into consideration. It is a reasonable assumption, however, there's absolutely no way of knowing. You have to take into consideration all types of Americans, from the very rich to the very poor. You can't just look at middle-class business people, which are indeed the ones who would be least likely to pick up a new drug habit. Who knows, even what I'm saying isn't with any certainty. Nobody can say anything for sure. You just have to take everything into consideration. Even if you're passionate about something, you have to weigh the cons as well, realistically, you know?
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      [CENTER]The only angels we need invoke are those of our better nature; reason, honesty and love.
      The only demons we need fear are those that lurk inside every human mind; ignorance, hatred, greed, and faith.
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    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      LuklaAdvocate wrote:

      Been there, seen and done that. I'll pass, thanks.

      Where?

      inb4 USA

      Christopher wrote:

      I know you probably love drugs, a whole lot, but you have to be realistic ;). That's what adults do. The healthcare system is one of the most important systems we have. A policy's affect on that system absolutely must be taken into consideration.

      Though like I said, I disagree with the whole concept of government healthcare, so I'm not about to oppose drug legalisation because it may clash with government healthcare.

      Christopher wrote:

      It is a reasonable assumption, however, there's absolutely no way of knowing.

      Well not for sure, but in the event of something where all we have is assumptions, I'm going to go on the side that has clear facts in many other areas and the side that doesn't infringe upon people's basic liberties.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Frosty wrote:

      Well not for sure, but in the event of something where all we have is assumptions, I'm going to go on the side that has clear facts in many other areas and the side that doesn't infringe upon people's basic liberties.
      Of course, liberties are important, but I don't think the legalization of hard drugs is a good thing. I believe the legalization of marijuana would do quite enough to unclog prisons and take the strain off of law enforcement. I just don't see the practicality of it. Even if these drugs were legal, the only way I wouldn't be upset with it is if it was strictly controlled and regulated. I wouldn't mind seeing an experiment, to see if it could work. And if it doesn't, bam, gone. I know that wouldn't happen, but who knows.

      I'd like to see some of these facts.
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      [CENTER]The only angels we need invoke are those of our better nature; reason, honesty and love.
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    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Christopher wrote:

      Of course, liberties are important, but I don't think the legalization of hard drugs is a good thing. I believe the legalization of marijuana would do quite enough to unclog prisons and take the strain off of law enforcement. I just don't see the practicality of it. Even if these drugs were legal, the only way I wouldn't be upset with it is if it was strictly controlled and regulated. I wouldn't mind seeing an experiment, to see if it could work. And if it doesn't, bam, gone. I know that wouldn't happen, but who knows.

      I'd like to see some of these facts.

      The facts about reliable drug purity, legitimate companies as opposed to organised crime gangs profiting off it etc.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Frosty wrote:

      The facts about reliable drug purity, legitimate companies as opposed to organised crime gangs profiting off it etc.
      Those things I agree with, and believe would be of great benefit. You have to understand my stance, which I'm not sure that you do. I agree that there are problems with the current way things are happening. I believe it is unreasonable to throw people in jail for their personal life choices, especially when they could be better served with treatment. I'm all for things like treatment instead of incarceration and the distribution of sterile needles. For me to fully accept the idea of outright legalization of the harder drugs, I would need to see a proposition that would allow those who need treatment to be able to get it without clogging our hospitals and treatment centers. That's my only qualm. I think regulating these drugs have the potential to be very beneficial in a lot of areas of society.
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      [CENTER]The only angels we need invoke are those of our better nature; reason, honesty and love.
      The only demons we need fear are those that lurk inside every human mind; ignorance, hatred, greed, and faith.
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    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Christopher wrote:

      Those things I agree with, and believe would be of great benefit. You have to understand my stance, which I'm not sure that you do. I agree that there are problems with the current way things are happening. I believe it is unreasonable to throw people in jail for their personal life choices, especially when they could be better served with treatment. I'm all for things like treatment instead of incarceration and the distribution of sterile needles. For me to fully accept the idea of outright legalization of the harder drugs, I would need to see a proposition that would allow those who need treatment to be able to get it without clogging our hospitals and treatment centers. That's my only qualm. I think regulating these drugs have the potential to be very beneficial in a lot of areas of society.

      Well for one, I can see legalisation sort of bringing the issue of drug use more out in the open, making those who need treatment far more inclined to seek it out. I mean it's not a foolproof guarantee they'll all seek it out, but I can certainly see the fact they don't have to admit to having committed a criminal offence as encouraging more to seek help.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      Frosty wrote:

      Well for one, I can see legalisation sort of bringing the issue of drug use more out in the open, making those who need treatment far more inclined to seek it out. I mean it's not a foolproof guarantee they'll all seek it out, but I can certainly see the fact they don't have to admit to having committed a criminal offence as encouraging more to seek help.
      Ehh, I personally wouldn't be surprised if the media began painting the whole movement in a negative light. We all know the power of the media these days. It would bring it out in the open, but I see it happening in a negative way. I'm going to go off topic for a second. When you believe strongly about something, one of the most noble things a person can possibly do is question their beliefs. You know, look for holes in it. You can't always stand by something one hundred percent. That being said I think a lot of people who are anti-prohibition magnify the positives and minimize the negatives.

      I may sound like I'm being overly pessimistic about the whole situation, but I really don't think I am. I'm taking it from the point of view of someone who will be a healthcare professional in the future. Around the time I'll start practicing is when I see radical changes like this happening, or at least being seriously discussed. I want to know that this won't hurt what I'm trying to do. I just want to know that people with mental illness that they didn't inflict on themselves (MDD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, somatoform disorders) will be able to get the treatment they need before someone who made the sober decision to start using hard drugs. That's the assurance that I need.
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      [CENTER]The only angels we need invoke are those of our better nature; reason, honesty and love.
      The only demons we need fear are those that lurk inside every human mind; ignorance, hatred, greed, and faith.
      [/CENTER]

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    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      I really don't think the government have the right to interfere with an independent adult because of what they choose to do with their body. Especially one like the UK government which ignores scientific research into illegal drugs and classifies them based on the general publics ignorant assumptions. If someone chooses to fuck themselves up I think they have the right to. It's when they start interfering with other people that the government should get involved. Drugs should be a persons choice but before anything like that happened we would need more research into drugs and more factual information available about them so that people could make an educated choice.

    • Re: Decriminalising drug use

      shatterstar wrote:

      Oh, and do you have proof that I'm wrong? No, you don't. There's no such thing as a non-stoner who thinks drugs should be legalized.
      I'm not a stoner I think drugs should be legalized. Think before you make such sweeping generalizations, friend.

      ---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

      Also, Penn and Teller....



      ...are two people who have never touched drugs in their lives, and vehemently oppose the war on drugs. They're also successful Las Vegas magicians, comedians, and have their own Showtime series.
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      [CENTER]The only angels we need invoke are those of our better nature; reason, honesty and love.
      The only demons we need fear are those that lurk inside every human mind; ignorance, hatred, greed, and faith.
      [/CENTER]

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