It's a shame the majority of the money we send to Africa as "international aid" ends up propping up the same dictatorial Governments that starves the people the money was intended for.

Although it's probably intentional.

I totally agree. I was talking to someone I know about refugees coming to our town. They are living in these small appartments and gets a little bit money to live on. This person I was talking to talked really bad about them and when I tried to tell her that they didnt come here to steal her money, but because it was war in their country or lack of food, she said that it was their own fault when they started the wars and didnt bother to work to get food. SHe also said that all of them are mean people and that they should be kicked out right away and we should close our borders.

I know some of the refugees and they are really nice people. They dont complain even though they have very little money, have been seperated from their families and live many people in the same appartment. They also want to get a job, but cant since they arent a citizent of our country.

So yeah I agree with you. We should help other people and just ignore the ones saying we shouldnt.

If the immigrant in question lives in social housing and has a little money as you say she does then, effectively, she is stealing from her.

I'm not saying that claiming benefits is exclusive to immigrants, I'm saying that the benefits system is retarded.

How can we moan and groan about immigration when we encourage it like we do? Free health care, lax enforcement of fraud, massive benefit hand outs, massive ammounts of Government employment and social housing.

Cut the Government out and immigrants would be welcome with open arms.

You're friend is an idiot.

With all due respect.

TBH, she's right, to an extent. Most of the money donated doesn't even reach the people who need it, it stays with the government, who use that money to increase the chasm between the rich and poor in Africa. The charity work involving Africa at the moment is, for the most part, the equivalent of trying to fill a pool with a leaky bucket on a hot day. You're never going to fill that pool, regardless of how much you try, and how much water you put in. However, if you personally wish to go and help the people there, then that's a different matter entirely, as at least you will be directly helping, and therefore can be certain that your charity has some positive effect.

i agree with you, but i don't think we should give them money, just give them the goods directly. money can be taken by local warlords and used to fund drug trafficking and militias, neither of which benefit the people

cooter wrote:

i agree with you, but i don't think we should give them money, just give them the goods directly. money can be taken by local warlords and used to fund drug trafficking and militias, neither of which benefit the people

Only problem with that is militia etc. will likely steal w/e is dropped into villages/towns by air for themselves or to sell back to those people who should have received it in the first place. The only way to solve the problem in Africa is to either: depose the current government and dismantle all fighting forces in the country, including local militia etc., or: let the country implode, and then help rebuild it thereafter. Neither of these options will transpire, though, because of a combination of the opinions of people such as the OP and other countries' foreign policy. For those who don't already know, the primary goal of foreign policy for any country is to protect itself financially/militarily. After that the goal is to scratch the right backs, shake the right hands for the benefit of the country itself - not to be charitable. Charity is a necessity born of democracy and media pressure, without which the British government, for example, wouldn't donate to countries like Africa at all.

How can we moan and groan about immigration when we encourage it like we do? Free health care, lax enforcement of fraud, massive benefit hand outs, massive ammounts of Government employment and social housing.

I dont think being an immigrant is as good as you say. They have to wait for ages to get any money to go to the doctor. They havvent got anything to do, they want to work and do something, anything, because it is deadly boring to sit around in a small house all day. They have one hour each week to learn our language, so they will probably learn it in like ten years. That isnt good enough. People are calling them bad things and avoiding them on the streets. I dont think this seems like encouraging them to come here. So why do they stay then when it is so bad? Because if they go back to their country they will probably be killed or they will have a great chance og dying.

They have a reason for coming here and then I think we should help them, but if they havvent got papers we should be more strict to let them in since more and more people come without papers and then it cost us alot of money to investigate. MOney we could have used on something else.

If the immigrant in question lives in social housing and has a little money as you say she does then, effectively, she is stealing from her.

You mean that the immigrants are stealing from her? She have never worked so I dont think so. She has got everything she needs and more than that. I cant see why we shouldnt give some of our money to people who need it. We arent more worth than them. They have just as much right to live as we have. We have much more than we need and they have nothing in their homecountries, so then I think the least we could do is help them out.

I am not talking about one immigrant. I am talking about six who are living in this small house with one bathroom and one refritgiator and about a family with several kids that is living in a small appartment. They have never complained and dont want to seem ungratefull, but from what I see they dont get the medical help they need or the help to get past the bad memories, cause lots of them have experinced horrible things. One of them who is at my age has lived her whole life in a refugee camp.

TBH, she's right, to an extent. Most of the money donated doesn't even reach the people who need it, it stays with the government, who use that money to increase the chasm between the rich and poor in Africa. The charity work involving Africa at the moment is, for the most part, the equivalent of trying to fill a pool with a leaky bucket on a hot day. You're never going to fill that pool, regardless of how much you try, and how much water you put in. However, if you personally wish to go and help the people there, then that's a different matter entirely, as at least you will be directly helping, and therefore can be certain that your charity has some positive effect.

TBH, she's right, to an extent. Most of the money donated doesn't even reach the people who need it, it stays with the government, who use that money to increase the chasm between the rich and poor in Africa. The charity work involving Africa at the moment is, for the most part, the equivalent of trying to fill a pool with a leaky bucket on a hot day. You're never going to fill that pool, regardless of how much you try, and how much water you put in. However, if you personally wish to go and help the people there, then that's a different matter entirely, as at least you will be directly helping, and therefore can be certain that your charity has some positive effect.

So if I help one kid to not get a disease by vaccinating him then it isn worth it, since it is lots of other kids who dosent get help? Isnt it worth it for this kid? And for his family? Maybe this kid is the future ruler of his country? The one who is going to sort his country out? Isnt it then worth it? And isnt it anyway worth it for this kid and for the people around him seeing him grow and not catching a disiase that is killing many people?

I think its worth it. I cant see why we shouldnt try. To say that it is like trying to fill a pool with a leaky bucket on a hot day isnt right. It is much more rewarding to help people. I would definetley like it if someone helped me if I needed it and that they didnt think that they couldnt help everybody, so why bother.

It got kind of long, sorry, I guess. Just my thoughts.

I think its really bad that people live in such conditions, but alot of the time, money thats given goes to advertising, salaries and other stuff, a very small % of what we give is actually passed on for living stuff for people.

i cant imagine what its like in some places, im from south africa, and there you see alot of homeless people but thats nothing compared to the more northern countries.

I think the best thing to do is to get money to build wells, cause those save alot of lives and they cant really be taken by militias, unless they plan on having a 24/7 guard of it. which i highly doubt

No worries about the long reply I agree that it might feel as if it's worthwhile to help that single child, BUT, I think you're being very naive with the whole 'he'll grow up and change the country'...it's just not happening. The only people in that country capable of taking power are those who have been given a taste by those on top, and by the time those people got there they would be corrupt as those who had previously fed them table scraps. In fact, one of the reasons why the government does not allow 9/10's of aid to get through is because they know by keeping the populace weak/frightened/diseased etc. they solidify and maintain their rule. As cruel as it sounds, all I am saying is that, charity is futile because it maintains the status quo in Africa, which is clearly a raw deal for 99% of the population. So, by all means, keep giving, help that one child, but don't be under the illusion you're doing anything other than extending what will be a short, brutal, and miserable life for him/her. A life that will spawn more suffering, but a life nonetheless. Just my opinion, and I know it sounds heartless in a way but it really just seems to me like if you step back and look at it objectively, we're fuelling the poverty and depravation there more than we're helping eradicate it.

Okay I see your point and the thing about him ruling the country wasnt really that serious. It was just a way to express my view.:wink: And if we gave this kid a bit of an education he probably would be able to help his family and then we have helped a whole family by helping one kid. If you see what I mean.

I really dont know what to do about the political situation in Africa, but I really think we should help the civil people there, even if we cant sort everything out.

I think this country is too generous to immigrants.
In our local newspaper, there was a story about an immigrant Afghan family who lived of benefits in a house worth more than £1m. They all had iPods, TVs, consoles etc. There are nationals here who can barely afford a living, never mind these luxury goods.
The most sickening thing was that they were pleased with it, and admitted they felt they were scamming the council.
Immigrants should have to work like the rest of us, not sit about and benefit from our overly-liberal attitude.

Yes I remember this, its known as the brick wall of human stupidity. Although at times it is funny to watch. :p

She'll, in time, fall a notch or two. It might even take a little nudge. :p

xRC wrote:

Lmao haha yes i catch your drift i might just send her in a box to Africa or something and make her live in a slum then she will see what i mean.

Perhaps not so dramatic, but yes you get the picture. I was leaning toward a joke, make her feel stupid.:p